What are some nice/clever ways to introduce the tonic's dominant seventh chord?












5















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period







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  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    4 hours ago
















5















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period







share|improve this question




















  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    4 hours ago














5












5








5








I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period







share|improve this question
















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period




theory chord-progressions modulation baroque-period romantic-period






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 38 mins ago









user45266

3,4341734




3,4341734










asked 4 hours ago









Kim FierensKim Fierens

646610




646610








  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    4 hours ago














  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    4 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    4 hours ago








1




1





What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

– replete
4 hours ago





What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

– replete
4 hours ago













My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

– Kim Fierens
4 hours ago





My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

– Kim Fierens
4 hours ago




1




1





The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

– Dekkadeci
4 hours ago





The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

– Dekkadeci
4 hours ago










3 Answers
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2














Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer


























  • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago



















2














You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






share|improve this answer































    2














    One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



    The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



    enter image description here






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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2














      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer


























      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        3 hours ago
















      2














      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer


























      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        3 hours ago














      2












      2








      2







      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer















      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 3 hours ago

























      answered 3 hours ago









      repletereplete

      2,413518




      2,413518













      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        3 hours ago



















      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        3 hours ago

















      Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

      – Kim Fierens
      3 hours ago





      Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

      – Kim Fierens
      3 hours ago











      2














      You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



      If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






      share|improve this answer




























        2














        You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



        If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






        share|improve this answer


























          2












          2








          2







          You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



          If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






          share|improve this answer













          You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



          If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 3 hours ago









          Laurence PayneLaurence Payne

          36.2k1669




          36.2k1669























              2














              One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



              The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



              enter image description here






              share|improve this answer




























                2














                One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                enter image description here






                share|improve this answer


























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                  The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                  enter image description here






                  share|improve this answer













                  One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                  The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                  enter image description here







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 3 hours ago









                  RichardRichard

                  43.2k699186




                  43.2k699186






























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