What init system was used in early Linux distributions?
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
Nowadays there is quite some debate and controversy over whether Linux distributions should use systemd
, GNU Shepherd etc. But all these systems are relatively new - for these examples dating back to 2010 and 2003 respectively.
Since the whole point of the term "GNU/Linux" is that GNU was (at that time) a complete operating system without a kernel, what init system was used in early distributions, for example in the 90s? It seems that init
(or equivalent) is a pretty fundamental thing to have in any UNIX-based system. Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd
et al?
history boot linux
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
Nowadays there is quite some debate and controversy over whether Linux distributions should use systemd
, GNU Shepherd etc. But all these systems are relatively new - for these examples dating back to 2010 and 2003 respectively.
Since the whole point of the term "GNU/Linux" is that GNU was (at that time) a complete operating system without a kernel, what init system was used in early distributions, for example in the 90s? It seems that init
(or equivalent) is a pretty fundamental thing to have in any UNIX-based system. Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd
et al?
history boot linux
New contributor
1
Are you sure thatsysvinit
was introduced as late as 2008?
– Jonathon Reinhart
yesterday
systemd
is hardly "retro" so design questions about it is a question for a different stack exchange (or none, it has been answered and debated ad nauseam elsewhere)
– pipe
16 hours ago
1
@pipe the question is not aboutsystemd
, it's about other init systems which were used beforesystemd
existed
– Kidburla
7 hours ago
@JonathonReinhart you are right, as @StephenKitt also pointed out. I have edited my question to match. I wasn't previously aware thatsysvinit
was so old, as the earliest references I could find to it were from 2008, but I have now been proven wrong...
– Kidburla
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
Nowadays there is quite some debate and controversy over whether Linux distributions should use systemd
, GNU Shepherd etc. But all these systems are relatively new - for these examples dating back to 2010 and 2003 respectively.
Since the whole point of the term "GNU/Linux" is that GNU was (at that time) a complete operating system without a kernel, what init system was used in early distributions, for example in the 90s? It seems that init
(or equivalent) is a pretty fundamental thing to have in any UNIX-based system. Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd
et al?
history boot linux
New contributor
Nowadays there is quite some debate and controversy over whether Linux distributions should use systemd
, GNU Shepherd etc. But all these systems are relatively new - for these examples dating back to 2010 and 2003 respectively.
Since the whole point of the term "GNU/Linux" is that GNU was (at that time) a complete operating system without a kernel, what init system was used in early distributions, for example in the 90s? It seems that init
(or equivalent) is a pretty fundamental thing to have in any UNIX-based system. Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd
et al?
history boot linux
history boot linux
New contributor
New contributor
edited 7 hours ago
New contributor
asked yesterday
Kidburla
1586
1586
New contributor
New contributor
1
Are you sure thatsysvinit
was introduced as late as 2008?
– Jonathon Reinhart
yesterday
systemd
is hardly "retro" so design questions about it is a question for a different stack exchange (or none, it has been answered and debated ad nauseam elsewhere)
– pipe
16 hours ago
1
@pipe the question is not aboutsystemd
, it's about other init systems which were used beforesystemd
existed
– Kidburla
7 hours ago
@JonathonReinhart you are right, as @StephenKitt also pointed out. I have edited my question to match. I wasn't previously aware thatsysvinit
was so old, as the earliest references I could find to it were from 2008, but I have now been proven wrong...
– Kidburla
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Are you sure thatsysvinit
was introduced as late as 2008?
– Jonathon Reinhart
yesterday
systemd
is hardly "retro" so design questions about it is a question for a different stack exchange (or none, it has been answered and debated ad nauseam elsewhere)
– pipe
16 hours ago
1
@pipe the question is not aboutsystemd
, it's about other init systems which were used beforesystemd
existed
– Kidburla
7 hours ago
@JonathonReinhart you are right, as @StephenKitt also pointed out. I have edited my question to match. I wasn't previously aware thatsysvinit
was so old, as the earliest references I could find to it were from 2008, but I have now been proven wrong...
– Kidburla
7 hours ago
1
1
Are you sure that
sysvinit
was introduced as late as 2008?– Jonathon Reinhart
yesterday
Are you sure that
sysvinit
was introduced as late as 2008?– Jonathon Reinhart
yesterday
systemd
is hardly "retro" so design questions about it is a question for a different stack exchange (or none, it has been answered and debated ad nauseam elsewhere)– pipe
16 hours ago
systemd
is hardly "retro" so design questions about it is a question for a different stack exchange (or none, it has been answered and debated ad nauseam elsewhere)– pipe
16 hours ago
1
1
@pipe the question is not about
systemd
, it's about other init systems which were used before systemd
existed– Kidburla
7 hours ago
@pipe the question is not about
systemd
, it's about other init systems which were used before systemd
existed– Kidburla
7 hours ago
@JonathonReinhart you are right, as @StephenKitt also pointed out. I have edited my question to match. I wasn't previously aware that
sysvinit
was so old, as the earliest references I could find to it were from 2008, but I have now been proven wrong...– Kidburla
7 hours ago
@JonathonReinhart you are right, as @StephenKitt also pointed out. I have edited my question to match. I wasn't previously aware that
sysvinit
was so old, as the earliest references I could find to it were from 2008, but I have now been proven wrong...– Kidburla
7 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
22
down vote
accepted
Early Linux distributions, including MCC and TAMU, used Miquel van Smoorenburg’s sysvinit
package (which was originally written for Minix in February 1992 and ported to Linux in July 1992; it is now maintained on Savannah). This came with built-in examples for two styles of init setup, both based on /etc/inittab
and runlevels: “simple” RC, with a few monolithic rc
scripts taking care of the various runlevel transitions, and System V-style init.d
scripts.
This continued in Slackware and Debian, the oldest surviving distributions: Slackware used an RC-style setup on top of sysvinit
, Debian an init.d
-style setup also on top of sysvinit
.
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
That’s a rather contentious topic, opinion-based, so I won’t answer it here. JdeBP has written an FGA on the topic which provides some insight.
Interesting, I can't find any reference to sysvinit dating back to before 2008, hence my question... Is there a homepage for sysvinit?
– Kidburla
yesterday
3
The current “homepage” is here. In the nineties it was distributed on TSX-11 and SunSITE; see for example this 1996 copy. Current versions still have a changelog going back to 1992.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
Strangely the "FGA" you linked ignores the biggest problem with System V style init systems and the most compelling reason to use systemd instead: the old scripts were slow, and systemd can boot systems much faster.
– Ross Ridge
yesterday
1
That's because boot times of great justice is a fallacy, for reasons that M. Kitt has already explained on this page, and because changing/bin/sh
to the Debian Almquist shell in the middle-to-late 2000s had (as contemporary doco and commentary records) more impact on boot speed than changing init systems.
– JdeBP
yesterday
There is more history in A history of modern init systems (1992–2015).
– JdeBP
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
System V was released in 1983 and thus the concept of "System V init" is at least as old. A similar predecessor was already found in System III as early as 1981.
Linux early used an init system developed by Miquel van Smoorenburg which was inspired by the init from System V.
Besides the problems already mentioned in the other answers, one big problem with System V init is that it's rather "static" - it was invented in a time when most Unix computers were comaratively "big" (by those days standards) continuously running multi-user machines with a static hardware configuration. The machines and peripherals were initialized during boot up and stayed operative until shutdown.
This doesn't scale well to todays battery-equipped portable machines where stuff like USB and Thunderbolt devices are continuously plugged and detached, systems are put to standby at random times and wake up again with totally different peripherals attached.
This calls for a more dynamic and possibly event-driven init system and lead to the design of eg. upstart and ultimately systemd, which is somewhat inspired by MacOS' launchd.
New contributor
There are several things wrong with this answer. Linux never used AT&Tinit
+rc
. It used a clone developed a decade later by Miquel van Smoorenburg. And the revised AT&Tinit
+rc
system, introducinginittab
and so forth, that people generally refer to was introduced with System 3 not System 5.
– JdeBP
yesterday
1
Thanks for the feedback. I edited my answer. I didn't intend to say that Linux used the original init from System V, but this really wasn't clear from my answer. I didn't know about System V init's predecessor from System III, but also added information about that, and added some references for the information I added.
– Gunter Ohrner
16 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
It was too simplistic. At that time, basically, the RC scripts would be run sequentially, only sorted alphabetically/numerically, everything managed manually. This meant:
- Order was somewhat arbitrary, not intrinsically enforceable by the scripts itself. The admin needed to to take care. Better not start that service before the NFS script has run...
- There was no explicit connection between the thing started by a script, and the script itself. The script starting an Oracle database system might just be called
/etc/init.d/db
. The script startinghttpd
might be calledapache
. Worse, you might haveapache
andapache2
. And so on. Have fun finding it (and good luck being sure you got the correct one). - Every script was free to bring its own subcommands (
start
,restart
,reload
,graceful
...) with sometimes arbitrary semantics. - As far as I can recall, one of the largest drawbacks at the time was the sequential initialization. It took ages to boot up the system. Good riddance if a script had to wait on some external piece of hardware...
At the end of the day, it was just natural progression to look for more capable systems.
2
Regarding point 1,insserv
and LSB headers have been available since at least 2005 to take care of dependencies (declared in the scripts), long before systemd was designed. Regarding point 4,startpar
was available around the same time to allow parallel initialisation. They weren’t perfect but things weren’t as bad as you suggest.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
1
I believe parallelization, asynchrony, and concurrency were the main drivers, all three in the name of reducing startup time. Automatic dependency management was just the mechanism to make that work (a mechanism already well-known frommake -j
and friends to work well for that goal).
– Jörg W Mittag
yesterday
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
22
down vote
accepted
Early Linux distributions, including MCC and TAMU, used Miquel van Smoorenburg’s sysvinit
package (which was originally written for Minix in February 1992 and ported to Linux in July 1992; it is now maintained on Savannah). This came with built-in examples for two styles of init setup, both based on /etc/inittab
and runlevels: “simple” RC, with a few monolithic rc
scripts taking care of the various runlevel transitions, and System V-style init.d
scripts.
This continued in Slackware and Debian, the oldest surviving distributions: Slackware used an RC-style setup on top of sysvinit
, Debian an init.d
-style setup also on top of sysvinit
.
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
That’s a rather contentious topic, opinion-based, so I won’t answer it here. JdeBP has written an FGA on the topic which provides some insight.
Interesting, I can't find any reference to sysvinit dating back to before 2008, hence my question... Is there a homepage for sysvinit?
– Kidburla
yesterday
3
The current “homepage” is here. In the nineties it was distributed on TSX-11 and SunSITE; see for example this 1996 copy. Current versions still have a changelog going back to 1992.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
Strangely the "FGA" you linked ignores the biggest problem with System V style init systems and the most compelling reason to use systemd instead: the old scripts were slow, and systemd can boot systems much faster.
– Ross Ridge
yesterday
1
That's because boot times of great justice is a fallacy, for reasons that M. Kitt has already explained on this page, and because changing/bin/sh
to the Debian Almquist shell in the middle-to-late 2000s had (as contemporary doco and commentary records) more impact on boot speed than changing init systems.
– JdeBP
yesterday
There is more history in A history of modern init systems (1992–2015).
– JdeBP
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
accepted
Early Linux distributions, including MCC and TAMU, used Miquel van Smoorenburg’s sysvinit
package (which was originally written for Minix in February 1992 and ported to Linux in July 1992; it is now maintained on Savannah). This came with built-in examples for two styles of init setup, both based on /etc/inittab
and runlevels: “simple” RC, with a few monolithic rc
scripts taking care of the various runlevel transitions, and System V-style init.d
scripts.
This continued in Slackware and Debian, the oldest surviving distributions: Slackware used an RC-style setup on top of sysvinit
, Debian an init.d
-style setup also on top of sysvinit
.
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
That’s a rather contentious topic, opinion-based, so I won’t answer it here. JdeBP has written an FGA on the topic which provides some insight.
Interesting, I can't find any reference to sysvinit dating back to before 2008, hence my question... Is there a homepage for sysvinit?
– Kidburla
yesterday
3
The current “homepage” is here. In the nineties it was distributed on TSX-11 and SunSITE; see for example this 1996 copy. Current versions still have a changelog going back to 1992.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
Strangely the "FGA" you linked ignores the biggest problem with System V style init systems and the most compelling reason to use systemd instead: the old scripts were slow, and systemd can boot systems much faster.
– Ross Ridge
yesterday
1
That's because boot times of great justice is a fallacy, for reasons that M. Kitt has already explained on this page, and because changing/bin/sh
to the Debian Almquist shell in the middle-to-late 2000s had (as contemporary doco and commentary records) more impact on boot speed than changing init systems.
– JdeBP
yesterday
There is more history in A history of modern init systems (1992–2015).
– JdeBP
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
accepted
up vote
22
down vote
accepted
Early Linux distributions, including MCC and TAMU, used Miquel van Smoorenburg’s sysvinit
package (which was originally written for Minix in February 1992 and ported to Linux in July 1992; it is now maintained on Savannah). This came with built-in examples for two styles of init setup, both based on /etc/inittab
and runlevels: “simple” RC, with a few monolithic rc
scripts taking care of the various runlevel transitions, and System V-style init.d
scripts.
This continued in Slackware and Debian, the oldest surviving distributions: Slackware used an RC-style setup on top of sysvinit
, Debian an init.d
-style setup also on top of sysvinit
.
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
That’s a rather contentious topic, opinion-based, so I won’t answer it here. JdeBP has written an FGA on the topic which provides some insight.
Early Linux distributions, including MCC and TAMU, used Miquel van Smoorenburg’s sysvinit
package (which was originally written for Minix in February 1992 and ported to Linux in July 1992; it is now maintained on Savannah). This came with built-in examples for two styles of init setup, both based on /etc/inittab
and runlevels: “simple” RC, with a few monolithic rc
scripts taking care of the various runlevel transitions, and System V-style init.d
scripts.
This continued in Slackware and Debian, the oldest surviving distributions: Slackware used an RC-style setup on top of sysvinit
, Debian an init.d
-style setup also on top of sysvinit
.
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
That’s a rather contentious topic, opinion-based, so I won’t answer it here. JdeBP has written an FGA on the topic which provides some insight.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Stephen Kitt
33.6k4139155
33.6k4139155
Interesting, I can't find any reference to sysvinit dating back to before 2008, hence my question... Is there a homepage for sysvinit?
– Kidburla
yesterday
3
The current “homepage” is here. In the nineties it was distributed on TSX-11 and SunSITE; see for example this 1996 copy. Current versions still have a changelog going back to 1992.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
Strangely the "FGA" you linked ignores the biggest problem with System V style init systems and the most compelling reason to use systemd instead: the old scripts were slow, and systemd can boot systems much faster.
– Ross Ridge
yesterday
1
That's because boot times of great justice is a fallacy, for reasons that M. Kitt has already explained on this page, and because changing/bin/sh
to the Debian Almquist shell in the middle-to-late 2000s had (as contemporary doco and commentary records) more impact on boot speed than changing init systems.
– JdeBP
yesterday
There is more history in A history of modern init systems (1992–2015).
– JdeBP
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
Interesting, I can't find any reference to sysvinit dating back to before 2008, hence my question... Is there a homepage for sysvinit?
– Kidburla
yesterday
3
The current “homepage” is here. In the nineties it was distributed on TSX-11 and SunSITE; see for example this 1996 copy. Current versions still have a changelog going back to 1992.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
Strangely the "FGA" you linked ignores the biggest problem with System V style init systems and the most compelling reason to use systemd instead: the old scripts were slow, and systemd can boot systems much faster.
– Ross Ridge
yesterday
1
That's because boot times of great justice is a fallacy, for reasons that M. Kitt has already explained on this page, and because changing/bin/sh
to the Debian Almquist shell in the middle-to-late 2000s had (as contemporary doco and commentary records) more impact on boot speed than changing init systems.
– JdeBP
yesterday
There is more history in A history of modern init systems (1992–2015).
– JdeBP
yesterday
Interesting, I can't find any reference to sysvinit dating back to before 2008, hence my question... Is there a homepage for sysvinit?
– Kidburla
yesterday
Interesting, I can't find any reference to sysvinit dating back to before 2008, hence my question... Is there a homepage for sysvinit?
– Kidburla
yesterday
3
3
The current “homepage” is here. In the nineties it was distributed on TSX-11 and SunSITE; see for example this 1996 copy. Current versions still have a changelog going back to 1992.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
The current “homepage” is here. In the nineties it was distributed on TSX-11 and SunSITE; see for example this 1996 copy. Current versions still have a changelog going back to 1992.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
Strangely the "FGA" you linked ignores the biggest problem with System V style init systems and the most compelling reason to use systemd instead: the old scripts were slow, and systemd can boot systems much faster.
– Ross Ridge
yesterday
Strangely the "FGA" you linked ignores the biggest problem with System V style init systems and the most compelling reason to use systemd instead: the old scripts were slow, and systemd can boot systems much faster.
– Ross Ridge
yesterday
1
1
That's because boot times of great justice is a fallacy, for reasons that M. Kitt has already explained on this page, and because changing
/bin/sh
to the Debian Almquist shell in the middle-to-late 2000s had (as contemporary doco and commentary records) more impact on boot speed than changing init systems.– JdeBP
yesterday
That's because boot times of great justice is a fallacy, for reasons that M. Kitt has already explained on this page, and because changing
/bin/sh
to the Debian Almquist shell in the middle-to-late 2000s had (as contemporary doco and commentary records) more impact on boot speed than changing init systems.– JdeBP
yesterday
There is more history in A history of modern init systems (1992–2015).
– JdeBP
yesterday
There is more history in A history of modern init systems (1992–2015).
– JdeBP
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
System V was released in 1983 and thus the concept of "System V init" is at least as old. A similar predecessor was already found in System III as early as 1981.
Linux early used an init system developed by Miquel van Smoorenburg which was inspired by the init from System V.
Besides the problems already mentioned in the other answers, one big problem with System V init is that it's rather "static" - it was invented in a time when most Unix computers were comaratively "big" (by those days standards) continuously running multi-user machines with a static hardware configuration. The machines and peripherals were initialized during boot up and stayed operative until shutdown.
This doesn't scale well to todays battery-equipped portable machines where stuff like USB and Thunderbolt devices are continuously plugged and detached, systems are put to standby at random times and wake up again with totally different peripherals attached.
This calls for a more dynamic and possibly event-driven init system and lead to the design of eg. upstart and ultimately systemd, which is somewhat inspired by MacOS' launchd.
New contributor
There are several things wrong with this answer. Linux never used AT&Tinit
+rc
. It used a clone developed a decade later by Miquel van Smoorenburg. And the revised AT&Tinit
+rc
system, introducinginittab
and so forth, that people generally refer to was introduced with System 3 not System 5.
– JdeBP
yesterday
1
Thanks for the feedback. I edited my answer. I didn't intend to say that Linux used the original init from System V, but this really wasn't clear from my answer. I didn't know about System V init's predecessor from System III, but also added information about that, and added some references for the information I added.
– Gunter Ohrner
16 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
System V was released in 1983 and thus the concept of "System V init" is at least as old. A similar predecessor was already found in System III as early as 1981.
Linux early used an init system developed by Miquel van Smoorenburg which was inspired by the init from System V.
Besides the problems already mentioned in the other answers, one big problem with System V init is that it's rather "static" - it was invented in a time when most Unix computers were comaratively "big" (by those days standards) continuously running multi-user machines with a static hardware configuration. The machines and peripherals were initialized during boot up and stayed operative until shutdown.
This doesn't scale well to todays battery-equipped portable machines where stuff like USB and Thunderbolt devices are continuously plugged and detached, systems are put to standby at random times and wake up again with totally different peripherals attached.
This calls for a more dynamic and possibly event-driven init system and lead to the design of eg. upstart and ultimately systemd, which is somewhat inspired by MacOS' launchd.
New contributor
There are several things wrong with this answer. Linux never used AT&Tinit
+rc
. It used a clone developed a decade later by Miquel van Smoorenburg. And the revised AT&Tinit
+rc
system, introducinginittab
and so forth, that people generally refer to was introduced with System 3 not System 5.
– JdeBP
yesterday
1
Thanks for the feedback. I edited my answer. I didn't intend to say that Linux used the original init from System V, but this really wasn't clear from my answer. I didn't know about System V init's predecessor from System III, but also added information about that, and added some references for the information I added.
– Gunter Ohrner
16 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
System V was released in 1983 and thus the concept of "System V init" is at least as old. A similar predecessor was already found in System III as early as 1981.
Linux early used an init system developed by Miquel van Smoorenburg which was inspired by the init from System V.
Besides the problems already mentioned in the other answers, one big problem with System V init is that it's rather "static" - it was invented in a time when most Unix computers were comaratively "big" (by those days standards) continuously running multi-user machines with a static hardware configuration. The machines and peripherals were initialized during boot up and stayed operative until shutdown.
This doesn't scale well to todays battery-equipped portable machines where stuff like USB and Thunderbolt devices are continuously plugged and detached, systems are put to standby at random times and wake up again with totally different peripherals attached.
This calls for a more dynamic and possibly event-driven init system and lead to the design of eg. upstart and ultimately systemd, which is somewhat inspired by MacOS' launchd.
New contributor
System V was released in 1983 and thus the concept of "System V init" is at least as old. A similar predecessor was already found in System III as early as 1981.
Linux early used an init system developed by Miquel van Smoorenburg which was inspired by the init from System V.
Besides the problems already mentioned in the other answers, one big problem with System V init is that it's rather "static" - it was invented in a time when most Unix computers were comaratively "big" (by those days standards) continuously running multi-user machines with a static hardware configuration. The machines and peripherals were initialized during boot up and stayed operative until shutdown.
This doesn't scale well to todays battery-equipped portable machines where stuff like USB and Thunderbolt devices are continuously plugged and detached, systems are put to standby at random times and wake up again with totally different peripherals attached.
This calls for a more dynamic and possibly event-driven init system and lead to the design of eg. upstart and ultimately systemd, which is somewhat inspired by MacOS' launchd.
New contributor
edited 16 hours ago
New contributor
answered yesterday
Gunter Ohrner
412
412
New contributor
New contributor
There are several things wrong with this answer. Linux never used AT&Tinit
+rc
. It used a clone developed a decade later by Miquel van Smoorenburg. And the revised AT&Tinit
+rc
system, introducinginittab
and so forth, that people generally refer to was introduced with System 3 not System 5.
– JdeBP
yesterday
1
Thanks for the feedback. I edited my answer. I didn't intend to say that Linux used the original init from System V, but this really wasn't clear from my answer. I didn't know about System V init's predecessor from System III, but also added information about that, and added some references for the information I added.
– Gunter Ohrner
16 hours ago
add a comment |
There are several things wrong with this answer. Linux never used AT&Tinit
+rc
. It used a clone developed a decade later by Miquel van Smoorenburg. And the revised AT&Tinit
+rc
system, introducinginittab
and so forth, that people generally refer to was introduced with System 3 not System 5.
– JdeBP
yesterday
1
Thanks for the feedback. I edited my answer. I didn't intend to say that Linux used the original init from System V, but this really wasn't clear from my answer. I didn't know about System V init's predecessor from System III, but also added information about that, and added some references for the information I added.
– Gunter Ohrner
16 hours ago
There are several things wrong with this answer. Linux never used AT&T
init
+rc
. It used a clone developed a decade later by Miquel van Smoorenburg. And the revised AT&T init
+rc
system, introducing inittab
and so forth, that people generally refer to was introduced with System 3 not System 5.– JdeBP
yesterday
There are several things wrong with this answer. Linux never used AT&T
init
+rc
. It used a clone developed a decade later by Miquel van Smoorenburg. And the revised AT&T init
+rc
system, introducing inittab
and so forth, that people generally refer to was introduced with System 3 not System 5.– JdeBP
yesterday
1
1
Thanks for the feedback. I edited my answer. I didn't intend to say that Linux used the original init from System V, but this really wasn't clear from my answer. I didn't know about System V init's predecessor from System III, but also added information about that, and added some references for the information I added.
– Gunter Ohrner
16 hours ago
Thanks for the feedback. I edited my answer. I didn't intend to say that Linux used the original init from System V, but this really wasn't clear from my answer. I didn't know about System V init's predecessor from System III, but also added information about that, and added some references for the information I added.
– Gunter Ohrner
16 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
It was too simplistic. At that time, basically, the RC scripts would be run sequentially, only sorted alphabetically/numerically, everything managed manually. This meant:
- Order was somewhat arbitrary, not intrinsically enforceable by the scripts itself. The admin needed to to take care. Better not start that service before the NFS script has run...
- There was no explicit connection between the thing started by a script, and the script itself. The script starting an Oracle database system might just be called
/etc/init.d/db
. The script startinghttpd
might be calledapache
. Worse, you might haveapache
andapache2
. And so on. Have fun finding it (and good luck being sure you got the correct one). - Every script was free to bring its own subcommands (
start
,restart
,reload
,graceful
...) with sometimes arbitrary semantics. - As far as I can recall, one of the largest drawbacks at the time was the sequential initialization. It took ages to boot up the system. Good riddance if a script had to wait on some external piece of hardware...
At the end of the day, it was just natural progression to look for more capable systems.
2
Regarding point 1,insserv
and LSB headers have been available since at least 2005 to take care of dependencies (declared in the scripts), long before systemd was designed. Regarding point 4,startpar
was available around the same time to allow parallel initialisation. They weren’t perfect but things weren’t as bad as you suggest.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
1
I believe parallelization, asynchrony, and concurrency were the main drivers, all three in the name of reducing startup time. Automatic dependency management was just the mechanism to make that work (a mechanism already well-known frommake -j
and friends to work well for that goal).
– Jörg W Mittag
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
It was too simplistic. At that time, basically, the RC scripts would be run sequentially, only sorted alphabetically/numerically, everything managed manually. This meant:
- Order was somewhat arbitrary, not intrinsically enforceable by the scripts itself. The admin needed to to take care. Better not start that service before the NFS script has run...
- There was no explicit connection between the thing started by a script, and the script itself. The script starting an Oracle database system might just be called
/etc/init.d/db
. The script startinghttpd
might be calledapache
. Worse, you might haveapache
andapache2
. And so on. Have fun finding it (and good luck being sure you got the correct one). - Every script was free to bring its own subcommands (
start
,restart
,reload
,graceful
...) with sometimes arbitrary semantics. - As far as I can recall, one of the largest drawbacks at the time was the sequential initialization. It took ages to boot up the system. Good riddance if a script had to wait on some external piece of hardware...
At the end of the day, it was just natural progression to look for more capable systems.
2
Regarding point 1,insserv
and LSB headers have been available since at least 2005 to take care of dependencies (declared in the scripts), long before systemd was designed. Regarding point 4,startpar
was available around the same time to allow parallel initialisation. They weren’t perfect but things weren’t as bad as you suggest.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
1
I believe parallelization, asynchrony, and concurrency were the main drivers, all three in the name of reducing startup time. Automatic dependency management was just the mechanism to make that work (a mechanism already well-known frommake -j
and friends to work well for that goal).
– Jörg W Mittag
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
It was too simplistic. At that time, basically, the RC scripts would be run sequentially, only sorted alphabetically/numerically, everything managed manually. This meant:
- Order was somewhat arbitrary, not intrinsically enforceable by the scripts itself. The admin needed to to take care. Better not start that service before the NFS script has run...
- There was no explicit connection between the thing started by a script, and the script itself. The script starting an Oracle database system might just be called
/etc/init.d/db
. The script startinghttpd
might be calledapache
. Worse, you might haveapache
andapache2
. And so on. Have fun finding it (and good luck being sure you got the correct one). - Every script was free to bring its own subcommands (
start
,restart
,reload
,graceful
...) with sometimes arbitrary semantics. - As far as I can recall, one of the largest drawbacks at the time was the sequential initialization. It took ages to boot up the system. Good riddance if a script had to wait on some external piece of hardware...
At the end of the day, it was just natural progression to look for more capable systems.
Also, what was wrong with the systems used at that time that led to the creation of systemd et al?
It was too simplistic. At that time, basically, the RC scripts would be run sequentially, only sorted alphabetically/numerically, everything managed manually. This meant:
- Order was somewhat arbitrary, not intrinsically enforceable by the scripts itself. The admin needed to to take care. Better not start that service before the NFS script has run...
- There was no explicit connection between the thing started by a script, and the script itself. The script starting an Oracle database system might just be called
/etc/init.d/db
. The script startinghttpd
might be calledapache
. Worse, you might haveapache
andapache2
. And so on. Have fun finding it (and good luck being sure you got the correct one). - Every script was free to bring its own subcommands (
start
,restart
,reload
,graceful
...) with sometimes arbitrary semantics. - As far as I can recall, one of the largest drawbacks at the time was the sequential initialization. It took ages to boot up the system. Good riddance if a script had to wait on some external piece of hardware...
At the end of the day, it was just natural progression to look for more capable systems.
answered yesterday
AnoE
68417
68417
2
Regarding point 1,insserv
and LSB headers have been available since at least 2005 to take care of dependencies (declared in the scripts), long before systemd was designed. Regarding point 4,startpar
was available around the same time to allow parallel initialisation. They weren’t perfect but things weren’t as bad as you suggest.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
1
I believe parallelization, asynchrony, and concurrency were the main drivers, all three in the name of reducing startup time. Automatic dependency management was just the mechanism to make that work (a mechanism already well-known frommake -j
and friends to work well for that goal).
– Jörg W Mittag
yesterday
add a comment |
2
Regarding point 1,insserv
and LSB headers have been available since at least 2005 to take care of dependencies (declared in the scripts), long before systemd was designed. Regarding point 4,startpar
was available around the same time to allow parallel initialisation. They weren’t perfect but things weren’t as bad as you suggest.
– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
1
I believe parallelization, asynchrony, and concurrency were the main drivers, all three in the name of reducing startup time. Automatic dependency management was just the mechanism to make that work (a mechanism already well-known frommake -j
and friends to work well for that goal).
– Jörg W Mittag
yesterday
2
2
Regarding point 1,
insserv
and LSB headers have been available since at least 2005 to take care of dependencies (declared in the scripts), long before systemd was designed. Regarding point 4, startpar
was available around the same time to allow parallel initialisation. They weren’t perfect but things weren’t as bad as you suggest.– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
Regarding point 1,
insserv
and LSB headers have been available since at least 2005 to take care of dependencies (declared in the scripts), long before systemd was designed. Regarding point 4, startpar
was available around the same time to allow parallel initialisation. They weren’t perfect but things weren’t as bad as you suggest.– Stephen Kitt
yesterday
1
1
I believe parallelization, asynchrony, and concurrency were the main drivers, all three in the name of reducing startup time. Automatic dependency management was just the mechanism to make that work (a mechanism already well-known from
make -j
and friends to work well for that goal).– Jörg W Mittag
yesterday
I believe parallelization, asynchrony, and concurrency were the main drivers, all three in the name of reducing startup time. Automatic dependency management was just the mechanism to make that work (a mechanism already well-known from
make -j
and friends to work well for that goal).– Jörg W Mittag
yesterday
add a comment |
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1
Are you sure that
sysvinit
was introduced as late as 2008?– Jonathon Reinhart
yesterday
systemd
is hardly "retro" so design questions about it is a question for a different stack exchange (or none, it has been answered and debated ad nauseam elsewhere)– pipe
16 hours ago
1
@pipe the question is not about
systemd
, it's about other init systems which were used beforesystemd
existed– Kidburla
7 hours ago
@JonathonReinhart you are right, as @StephenKitt also pointed out. I have edited my question to match. I wasn't previously aware that
sysvinit
was so old, as the earliest references I could find to it were from 2008, but I have now been proven wrong...– Kidburla
7 hours ago