Would it be possible for mammals to evolve blue blood?
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
Ever since I found out about the green blooded skink, I have wondered if it's possible for other blood colours to evolve among vertebrates, specifically blue in mammals.
science-based creature-design blood mammals
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
Ever since I found out about the green blooded skink, I have wondered if it's possible for other blood colours to evolve among vertebrates, specifically blue in mammals.
science-based creature-design blood mammals
New contributor
4
Possible duplicate of Other blood colors
– dot_Sp0T
10 hours ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channichthyidae
– Ville Niemi
9 hours ago
An interesting read on blood colors: compoundchem.com/2014/10/28/coloursofblood
– MTCoster
4 hours ago
Not exactly a duplicate: the other query simply asks about blood colours based on metal content. This query specifies blood colour within mammalian biology. A different kettle of fish!
– elemtilas
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
Ever since I found out about the green blooded skink, I have wondered if it's possible for other blood colours to evolve among vertebrates, specifically blue in mammals.
science-based creature-design blood mammals
New contributor
Ever since I found out about the green blooded skink, I have wondered if it's possible for other blood colours to evolve among vertebrates, specifically blue in mammals.
science-based creature-design blood mammals
science-based creature-design blood mammals
New contributor
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
JohnWDailey
3,8742473
3,8742473
New contributor
asked 17 hours ago
Speculatur
593
593
New contributor
New contributor
4
Possible duplicate of Other blood colors
– dot_Sp0T
10 hours ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channichthyidae
– Ville Niemi
9 hours ago
An interesting read on blood colors: compoundchem.com/2014/10/28/coloursofblood
– MTCoster
4 hours ago
Not exactly a duplicate: the other query simply asks about blood colours based on metal content. This query specifies blood colour within mammalian biology. A different kettle of fish!
– elemtilas
1 hour ago
add a comment |
4
Possible duplicate of Other blood colors
– dot_Sp0T
10 hours ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channichthyidae
– Ville Niemi
9 hours ago
An interesting read on blood colors: compoundchem.com/2014/10/28/coloursofblood
– MTCoster
4 hours ago
Not exactly a duplicate: the other query simply asks about blood colours based on metal content. This query specifies blood colour within mammalian biology. A different kettle of fish!
– elemtilas
1 hour ago
4
4
Possible duplicate of Other blood colors
– dot_Sp0T
10 hours ago
Possible duplicate of Other blood colors
– dot_Sp0T
10 hours ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channichthyidae
– Ville Niemi
9 hours ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channichthyidae
– Ville Niemi
9 hours ago
An interesting read on blood colors: compoundchem.com/2014/10/28/coloursofblood
– MTCoster
4 hours ago
An interesting read on blood colors: compoundchem.com/2014/10/28/coloursofblood
– MTCoster
4 hours ago
Not exactly a duplicate: the other query simply asks about blood colours based on metal content. This query specifies blood colour within mammalian biology. A different kettle of fish!
– elemtilas
1 hour ago
Not exactly a duplicate: the other query simply asks about blood colours based on metal content. This query specifies blood colour within mammalian biology. A different kettle of fish!
– elemtilas
1 hour ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
up vote
13
down vote
I can't see why not. Octopi have blue blood. Apparently its due to a protein called Hemocyanin that binds with copper. So its clearly physically possible in complex Earth life.
2
Hemocyanin is less effective than hemoglobin, and mammals require a lot of oxygen. We mammals have a fine tuned, extremely efficient metabolism at the price of being prone to even slightly lower oxygen supply. That's why not.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@Mołot mammals have lacatate which makes them survive and thrive in situations where the body can't get enough oxygen, not to be confused with lactic acid.
– Eries
5 hours ago
@Eries yes, mammals have support mechanisms that helps. Still, as pointed here, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/130546/… switching to more efficient base mechanism waa important part of evolution. Part that was only followed by further improvements, improvements you don't find in hemocyanin organisms.
– Mołot
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
For endotherms, iron is in the heme groups binding oxygen, yielding a reddish color.
For ectotherms, copper is in the heme group binding oxygen, yielding a bluish color.
In order to bind oxygen, each protein chain binds to one heme group, allowing a maximum of four oxygen molecules to bind per one hemoglobin molecule.
At heme's center sits an iron molecule. The iron makes heme look red-brown. But what if the iron is swapped for a different metal?
...in cold-blooded animals, blood appears blue because copper atoms sit at the center of the ring and bind to oxygen.
link
It is probably a good bet that binding affinities for the iron-heme-O2/CO2 complex at 98F are better attuned to optimal gas exchange relative to the copper-heme-O2/CO2 complex, since this is precisely the substitution which occurred during mammalian evolution, thru many intermediate steps, doubtless, including modification of the carrying protein/heme platform.
Which means blue blood is not favored relative to red blood, for mammals.
Impossible though? Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources. That would be something for a molecular biologist to grapple with. I expect toxicity would likely be a large experimental hurdle, the process likely including reactivation of hemocyanin biosynthesis, per Molot.
so in addition to all the other physiological modifications which went into the transition from ectothermy to endothermy, there was a wholesale swap of the metallic cofactor mediating gas transfer in the blood from copper to iron - amazing. the fact that iron is vastly more prevalent in the crustal distribution probably eased that, somewhat.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
2
Just in case this is confusing people: the precipitate colour, not the flame test colour, determines the colour of blood; copper (II) forms a blue ionic precipitate, but emits green light in a flame test. Medical News Today is being wrong.
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
" Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources." — this, plus bringing back metabolic paths for hemocyanin, instead of or along the hemoglobin ones.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@wizzwizz4 -edited to remove the potential for confusion.
– theRiley
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I am going with probably not
This is entirely possible in the sense of why not. Its not like blood color is a factor in its function, merely a byproduct. Its just our evolution resulted in iron based hemoglobin so walla red blood.
Here's why I say probably not:
We and most mammals are pretty complicated organisms. Blood is a pretty basic functioning trait. Its kind of unlikely that evolution would seek to revise our blood color without a strong reason. Some would hat wave mating for this but I feel its pretty safe to say blood isn't going to play out in most mammals mating habits unless vampires become a thing.
Maybe our nature can find improved immunity function that changes its color. And this is really the complicated part. Finding some adaptation that requires significant change in the blood chemistry to result in change of the color.
1
Id like to hear why this got downvoted
– anon
14 hours ago
I suppose because its a guess, and a wrong one. I don't like downvoting, but we shouldn't be guessing around here - speculating is ok, but not about matters which can be determined as matters of fact. I get downvoted too, and usually without explanation, sometimes I think unreasonably. I hope you don't feel that way about mine.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
1
There are an infinite number of possible reasons why a mammal might evolve blue blood and as you acknowledge no reason why blue color would necessarily be detrimental. Take the skink example. Why does it accumulate high quantities of biliverdin? Who knows. If the question was "Can a reptile evolve green blood?" and we hadn't discovered this family of skinks you could use this same answer to say that a green-blooded reptile would be unlikely to evolve. If there existed a blue-blooded mammal no one would say that it couldn't have evolved. The question is "Is it possible?" The answer is "Yes."
– Mike Nichols
13 hours ago
2
This answer is correct; it's unlikely. However, it doesn't answer the question "would it be possible".
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
"walla red blood" - you mean "voilà"? :)
– Sergio Tulentsev
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
It is possible. Hemocyanin would be what you would use and not hemoglobin. As stated, hemocyanin is worse at oxygen transport, compared to hemoglobin. But not all hemocyanins are the same, there are more effecient versions with better cooperative binding.
If you go with methods of directed evolution, we use to produce better enzymes, you could hope to produce hemocyanin, that would be good replacement for hemoglobin.
That for sure would take a lot of changes in your body to make it work well after that. But it is possible.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I want to support @anon's answer of
Probably not
and substantiate their assumption with scientific fact:
Hemoglobin (red) is better at transporting oxygen at the body temperature of mammals (around 38°C). It would be an evolutionary disadvantage for a mammal to have hemocyanin, because it would suffer from permanent "lack of oxygen" relative to other mammals with hemoglobin. Think of the blue-blooded antelope being out of breath more quickly than the red-blooded antelope. The lions would eat all the blue-blooded antelopes first.
Hemocyanin is better at transporting oxygen at the low body temperatures that ectotherms often have to function with. Blue blood is an evolutionary advantage for animals with low or changing body temperatures.
It has been suggested that warm-bloodedness helped mammals (and birds) better cope with fluctuating temperatures during Earth's history. If that is correct, cold-bloodedness (and blue blood) would have led to the extinction of mammals.
Other sources:
- German wikipedia articles on body temperature and hemocyanin.
New contributor
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
13
down vote
I can't see why not. Octopi have blue blood. Apparently its due to a protein called Hemocyanin that binds with copper. So its clearly physically possible in complex Earth life.
2
Hemocyanin is less effective than hemoglobin, and mammals require a lot of oxygen. We mammals have a fine tuned, extremely efficient metabolism at the price of being prone to even slightly lower oxygen supply. That's why not.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@Mołot mammals have lacatate which makes them survive and thrive in situations where the body can't get enough oxygen, not to be confused with lactic acid.
– Eries
5 hours ago
@Eries yes, mammals have support mechanisms that helps. Still, as pointed here, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/130546/… switching to more efficient base mechanism waa important part of evolution. Part that was only followed by further improvements, improvements you don't find in hemocyanin organisms.
– Mołot
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
I can't see why not. Octopi have blue blood. Apparently its due to a protein called Hemocyanin that binds with copper. So its clearly physically possible in complex Earth life.
2
Hemocyanin is less effective than hemoglobin, and mammals require a lot of oxygen. We mammals have a fine tuned, extremely efficient metabolism at the price of being prone to even slightly lower oxygen supply. That's why not.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@Mołot mammals have lacatate which makes them survive and thrive in situations where the body can't get enough oxygen, not to be confused with lactic acid.
– Eries
5 hours ago
@Eries yes, mammals have support mechanisms that helps. Still, as pointed here, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/130546/… switching to more efficient base mechanism waa important part of evolution. Part that was only followed by further improvements, improvements you don't find in hemocyanin organisms.
– Mołot
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
up vote
13
down vote
I can't see why not. Octopi have blue blood. Apparently its due to a protein called Hemocyanin that binds with copper. So its clearly physically possible in complex Earth life.
I can't see why not. Octopi have blue blood. Apparently its due to a protein called Hemocyanin that binds with copper. So its clearly physically possible in complex Earth life.
answered 15 hours ago
GrandmasterB
4,61711322
4,61711322
2
Hemocyanin is less effective than hemoglobin, and mammals require a lot of oxygen. We mammals have a fine tuned, extremely efficient metabolism at the price of being prone to even slightly lower oxygen supply. That's why not.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@Mołot mammals have lacatate which makes them survive and thrive in situations where the body can't get enough oxygen, not to be confused with lactic acid.
– Eries
5 hours ago
@Eries yes, mammals have support mechanisms that helps. Still, as pointed here, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/130546/… switching to more efficient base mechanism waa important part of evolution. Part that was only followed by further improvements, improvements you don't find in hemocyanin organisms.
– Mołot
5 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Hemocyanin is less effective than hemoglobin, and mammals require a lot of oxygen. We mammals have a fine tuned, extremely efficient metabolism at the price of being prone to even slightly lower oxygen supply. That's why not.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@Mołot mammals have lacatate which makes them survive and thrive in situations where the body can't get enough oxygen, not to be confused with lactic acid.
– Eries
5 hours ago
@Eries yes, mammals have support mechanisms that helps. Still, as pointed here, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/130546/… switching to more efficient base mechanism waa important part of evolution. Part that was only followed by further improvements, improvements you don't find in hemocyanin organisms.
– Mołot
5 hours ago
2
2
Hemocyanin is less effective than hemoglobin, and mammals require a lot of oxygen. We mammals have a fine tuned, extremely efficient metabolism at the price of being prone to even slightly lower oxygen supply. That's why not.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
Hemocyanin is less effective than hemoglobin, and mammals require a lot of oxygen. We mammals have a fine tuned, extremely efficient metabolism at the price of being prone to even slightly lower oxygen supply. That's why not.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@Mołot mammals have lacatate which makes them survive and thrive in situations where the body can't get enough oxygen, not to be confused with lactic acid.
– Eries
5 hours ago
@Mołot mammals have lacatate which makes them survive and thrive in situations where the body can't get enough oxygen, not to be confused with lactic acid.
– Eries
5 hours ago
@Eries yes, mammals have support mechanisms that helps. Still, as pointed here, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/130546/… switching to more efficient base mechanism waa important part of evolution. Part that was only followed by further improvements, improvements you don't find in hemocyanin organisms.
– Mołot
5 hours ago
@Eries yes, mammals have support mechanisms that helps. Still, as pointed here, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/130546/… switching to more efficient base mechanism waa important part of evolution. Part that was only followed by further improvements, improvements you don't find in hemocyanin organisms.
– Mołot
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
For endotherms, iron is in the heme groups binding oxygen, yielding a reddish color.
For ectotherms, copper is in the heme group binding oxygen, yielding a bluish color.
In order to bind oxygen, each protein chain binds to one heme group, allowing a maximum of four oxygen molecules to bind per one hemoglobin molecule.
At heme's center sits an iron molecule. The iron makes heme look red-brown. But what if the iron is swapped for a different metal?
...in cold-blooded animals, blood appears blue because copper atoms sit at the center of the ring and bind to oxygen.
link
It is probably a good bet that binding affinities for the iron-heme-O2/CO2 complex at 98F are better attuned to optimal gas exchange relative to the copper-heme-O2/CO2 complex, since this is precisely the substitution which occurred during mammalian evolution, thru many intermediate steps, doubtless, including modification of the carrying protein/heme platform.
Which means blue blood is not favored relative to red blood, for mammals.
Impossible though? Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources. That would be something for a molecular biologist to grapple with. I expect toxicity would likely be a large experimental hurdle, the process likely including reactivation of hemocyanin biosynthesis, per Molot.
so in addition to all the other physiological modifications which went into the transition from ectothermy to endothermy, there was a wholesale swap of the metallic cofactor mediating gas transfer in the blood from copper to iron - amazing. the fact that iron is vastly more prevalent in the crustal distribution probably eased that, somewhat.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
2
Just in case this is confusing people: the precipitate colour, not the flame test colour, determines the colour of blood; copper (II) forms a blue ionic precipitate, but emits green light in a flame test. Medical News Today is being wrong.
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
" Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources." — this, plus bringing back metabolic paths for hemocyanin, instead of or along the hemoglobin ones.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@wizzwizz4 -edited to remove the potential for confusion.
– theRiley
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
For endotherms, iron is in the heme groups binding oxygen, yielding a reddish color.
For ectotherms, copper is in the heme group binding oxygen, yielding a bluish color.
In order to bind oxygen, each protein chain binds to one heme group, allowing a maximum of four oxygen molecules to bind per one hemoglobin molecule.
At heme's center sits an iron molecule. The iron makes heme look red-brown. But what if the iron is swapped for a different metal?
...in cold-blooded animals, blood appears blue because copper atoms sit at the center of the ring and bind to oxygen.
link
It is probably a good bet that binding affinities for the iron-heme-O2/CO2 complex at 98F are better attuned to optimal gas exchange relative to the copper-heme-O2/CO2 complex, since this is precisely the substitution which occurred during mammalian evolution, thru many intermediate steps, doubtless, including modification of the carrying protein/heme platform.
Which means blue blood is not favored relative to red blood, for mammals.
Impossible though? Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources. That would be something for a molecular biologist to grapple with. I expect toxicity would likely be a large experimental hurdle, the process likely including reactivation of hemocyanin biosynthesis, per Molot.
so in addition to all the other physiological modifications which went into the transition from ectothermy to endothermy, there was a wholesale swap of the metallic cofactor mediating gas transfer in the blood from copper to iron - amazing. the fact that iron is vastly more prevalent in the crustal distribution probably eased that, somewhat.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
2
Just in case this is confusing people: the precipitate colour, not the flame test colour, determines the colour of blood; copper (II) forms a blue ionic precipitate, but emits green light in a flame test. Medical News Today is being wrong.
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
" Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources." — this, plus bringing back metabolic paths for hemocyanin, instead of or along the hemoglobin ones.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@wizzwizz4 -edited to remove the potential for confusion.
– theRiley
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
up vote
12
down vote
For endotherms, iron is in the heme groups binding oxygen, yielding a reddish color.
For ectotherms, copper is in the heme group binding oxygen, yielding a bluish color.
In order to bind oxygen, each protein chain binds to one heme group, allowing a maximum of four oxygen molecules to bind per one hemoglobin molecule.
At heme's center sits an iron molecule. The iron makes heme look red-brown. But what if the iron is swapped for a different metal?
...in cold-blooded animals, blood appears blue because copper atoms sit at the center of the ring and bind to oxygen.
link
It is probably a good bet that binding affinities for the iron-heme-O2/CO2 complex at 98F are better attuned to optimal gas exchange relative to the copper-heme-O2/CO2 complex, since this is precisely the substitution which occurred during mammalian evolution, thru many intermediate steps, doubtless, including modification of the carrying protein/heme platform.
Which means blue blood is not favored relative to red blood, for mammals.
Impossible though? Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources. That would be something for a molecular biologist to grapple with. I expect toxicity would likely be a large experimental hurdle, the process likely including reactivation of hemocyanin biosynthesis, per Molot.
For endotherms, iron is in the heme groups binding oxygen, yielding a reddish color.
For ectotherms, copper is in the heme group binding oxygen, yielding a bluish color.
In order to bind oxygen, each protein chain binds to one heme group, allowing a maximum of four oxygen molecules to bind per one hemoglobin molecule.
At heme's center sits an iron molecule. The iron makes heme look red-brown. But what if the iron is swapped for a different metal?
...in cold-blooded animals, blood appears blue because copper atoms sit at the center of the ring and bind to oxygen.
link
It is probably a good bet that binding affinities for the iron-heme-O2/CO2 complex at 98F are better attuned to optimal gas exchange relative to the copper-heme-O2/CO2 complex, since this is precisely the substitution which occurred during mammalian evolution, thru many intermediate steps, doubtless, including modification of the carrying protein/heme platform.
Which means blue blood is not favored relative to red blood, for mammals.
Impossible though? Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources. That would be something for a molecular biologist to grapple with. I expect toxicity would likely be a large experimental hurdle, the process likely including reactivation of hemocyanin biosynthesis, per Molot.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 13 hours ago
theRiley
1,06712
1,06712
so in addition to all the other physiological modifications which went into the transition from ectothermy to endothermy, there was a wholesale swap of the metallic cofactor mediating gas transfer in the blood from copper to iron - amazing. the fact that iron is vastly more prevalent in the crustal distribution probably eased that, somewhat.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
2
Just in case this is confusing people: the precipitate colour, not the flame test colour, determines the colour of blood; copper (II) forms a blue ionic precipitate, but emits green light in a flame test. Medical News Today is being wrong.
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
" Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources." — this, plus bringing back metabolic paths for hemocyanin, instead of or along the hemoglobin ones.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@wizzwizz4 -edited to remove the potential for confusion.
– theRiley
6 hours ago
add a comment |
so in addition to all the other physiological modifications which went into the transition from ectothermy to endothermy, there was a wholesale swap of the metallic cofactor mediating gas transfer in the blood from copper to iron - amazing. the fact that iron is vastly more prevalent in the crustal distribution probably eased that, somewhat.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
2
Just in case this is confusing people: the precipitate colour, not the flame test colour, determines the colour of blood; copper (II) forms a blue ionic precipitate, but emits green light in a flame test. Medical News Today is being wrong.
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
" Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources." — this, plus bringing back metabolic paths for hemocyanin, instead of or along the hemoglobin ones.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@wizzwizz4 -edited to remove the potential for confusion.
– theRiley
6 hours ago
so in addition to all the other physiological modifications which went into the transition from ectothermy to endothermy, there was a wholesale swap of the metallic cofactor mediating gas transfer in the blood from copper to iron - amazing. the fact that iron is vastly more prevalent in the crustal distribution probably eased that, somewhat.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
so in addition to all the other physiological modifications which went into the transition from ectothermy to endothermy, there was a wholesale swap of the metallic cofactor mediating gas transfer in the blood from copper to iron - amazing. the fact that iron is vastly more prevalent in the crustal distribution probably eased that, somewhat.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
2
2
Just in case this is confusing people: the precipitate colour, not the flame test colour, determines the colour of blood; copper (II) forms a blue ionic precipitate, but emits green light in a flame test. Medical News Today is being wrong.
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
Just in case this is confusing people: the precipitate colour, not the flame test colour, determines the colour of blood; copper (II) forms a blue ionic precipitate, but emits green light in a flame test. Medical News Today is being wrong.
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
1
" Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources." — this, plus bringing back metabolic paths for hemocyanin, instead of or along the hemoglobin ones.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
" Such an experiment could perhaps be run by depleting iron and raising the availability of suitable copper sources." — this, plus bringing back metabolic paths for hemocyanin, instead of or along the hemoglobin ones.
– Mołot
8 hours ago
@wizzwizz4 -edited to remove the potential for confusion.
– theRiley
6 hours ago
@wizzwizz4 -edited to remove the potential for confusion.
– theRiley
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I am going with probably not
This is entirely possible in the sense of why not. Its not like blood color is a factor in its function, merely a byproduct. Its just our evolution resulted in iron based hemoglobin so walla red blood.
Here's why I say probably not:
We and most mammals are pretty complicated organisms. Blood is a pretty basic functioning trait. Its kind of unlikely that evolution would seek to revise our blood color without a strong reason. Some would hat wave mating for this but I feel its pretty safe to say blood isn't going to play out in most mammals mating habits unless vampires become a thing.
Maybe our nature can find improved immunity function that changes its color. And this is really the complicated part. Finding some adaptation that requires significant change in the blood chemistry to result in change of the color.
1
Id like to hear why this got downvoted
– anon
14 hours ago
I suppose because its a guess, and a wrong one. I don't like downvoting, but we shouldn't be guessing around here - speculating is ok, but not about matters which can be determined as matters of fact. I get downvoted too, and usually without explanation, sometimes I think unreasonably. I hope you don't feel that way about mine.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
1
There are an infinite number of possible reasons why a mammal might evolve blue blood and as you acknowledge no reason why blue color would necessarily be detrimental. Take the skink example. Why does it accumulate high quantities of biliverdin? Who knows. If the question was "Can a reptile evolve green blood?" and we hadn't discovered this family of skinks you could use this same answer to say that a green-blooded reptile would be unlikely to evolve. If there existed a blue-blooded mammal no one would say that it couldn't have evolved. The question is "Is it possible?" The answer is "Yes."
– Mike Nichols
13 hours ago
2
This answer is correct; it's unlikely. However, it doesn't answer the question "would it be possible".
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
"walla red blood" - you mean "voilà"? :)
– Sergio Tulentsev
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
I am going with probably not
This is entirely possible in the sense of why not. Its not like blood color is a factor in its function, merely a byproduct. Its just our evolution resulted in iron based hemoglobin so walla red blood.
Here's why I say probably not:
We and most mammals are pretty complicated organisms. Blood is a pretty basic functioning trait. Its kind of unlikely that evolution would seek to revise our blood color without a strong reason. Some would hat wave mating for this but I feel its pretty safe to say blood isn't going to play out in most mammals mating habits unless vampires become a thing.
Maybe our nature can find improved immunity function that changes its color. And this is really the complicated part. Finding some adaptation that requires significant change in the blood chemistry to result in change of the color.
1
Id like to hear why this got downvoted
– anon
14 hours ago
I suppose because its a guess, and a wrong one. I don't like downvoting, but we shouldn't be guessing around here - speculating is ok, but not about matters which can be determined as matters of fact. I get downvoted too, and usually without explanation, sometimes I think unreasonably. I hope you don't feel that way about mine.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
1
There are an infinite number of possible reasons why a mammal might evolve blue blood and as you acknowledge no reason why blue color would necessarily be detrimental. Take the skink example. Why does it accumulate high quantities of biliverdin? Who knows. If the question was "Can a reptile evolve green blood?" and we hadn't discovered this family of skinks you could use this same answer to say that a green-blooded reptile would be unlikely to evolve. If there existed a blue-blooded mammal no one would say that it couldn't have evolved. The question is "Is it possible?" The answer is "Yes."
– Mike Nichols
13 hours ago
2
This answer is correct; it's unlikely. However, it doesn't answer the question "would it be possible".
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
"walla red blood" - you mean "voilà"? :)
– Sergio Tulentsev
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I am going with probably not
This is entirely possible in the sense of why not. Its not like blood color is a factor in its function, merely a byproduct. Its just our evolution resulted in iron based hemoglobin so walla red blood.
Here's why I say probably not:
We and most mammals are pretty complicated organisms. Blood is a pretty basic functioning trait. Its kind of unlikely that evolution would seek to revise our blood color without a strong reason. Some would hat wave mating for this but I feel its pretty safe to say blood isn't going to play out in most mammals mating habits unless vampires become a thing.
Maybe our nature can find improved immunity function that changes its color. And this is really the complicated part. Finding some adaptation that requires significant change in the blood chemistry to result in change of the color.
I am going with probably not
This is entirely possible in the sense of why not. Its not like blood color is a factor in its function, merely a byproduct. Its just our evolution resulted in iron based hemoglobin so walla red blood.
Here's why I say probably not:
We and most mammals are pretty complicated organisms. Blood is a pretty basic functioning trait. Its kind of unlikely that evolution would seek to revise our blood color without a strong reason. Some would hat wave mating for this but I feel its pretty safe to say blood isn't going to play out in most mammals mating habits unless vampires become a thing.
Maybe our nature can find improved immunity function that changes its color. And this is really the complicated part. Finding some adaptation that requires significant change in the blood chemistry to result in change of the color.
answered 14 hours ago
anon
10.1k1357
10.1k1357
1
Id like to hear why this got downvoted
– anon
14 hours ago
I suppose because its a guess, and a wrong one. I don't like downvoting, but we shouldn't be guessing around here - speculating is ok, but not about matters which can be determined as matters of fact. I get downvoted too, and usually without explanation, sometimes I think unreasonably. I hope you don't feel that way about mine.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
1
There are an infinite number of possible reasons why a mammal might evolve blue blood and as you acknowledge no reason why blue color would necessarily be detrimental. Take the skink example. Why does it accumulate high quantities of biliverdin? Who knows. If the question was "Can a reptile evolve green blood?" and we hadn't discovered this family of skinks you could use this same answer to say that a green-blooded reptile would be unlikely to evolve. If there existed a blue-blooded mammal no one would say that it couldn't have evolved. The question is "Is it possible?" The answer is "Yes."
– Mike Nichols
13 hours ago
2
This answer is correct; it's unlikely. However, it doesn't answer the question "would it be possible".
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
"walla red blood" - you mean "voilà"? :)
– Sergio Tulentsev
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
1
Id like to hear why this got downvoted
– anon
14 hours ago
I suppose because its a guess, and a wrong one. I don't like downvoting, but we shouldn't be guessing around here - speculating is ok, but not about matters which can be determined as matters of fact. I get downvoted too, and usually without explanation, sometimes I think unreasonably. I hope you don't feel that way about mine.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
1
There are an infinite number of possible reasons why a mammal might evolve blue blood and as you acknowledge no reason why blue color would necessarily be detrimental. Take the skink example. Why does it accumulate high quantities of biliverdin? Who knows. If the question was "Can a reptile evolve green blood?" and we hadn't discovered this family of skinks you could use this same answer to say that a green-blooded reptile would be unlikely to evolve. If there existed a blue-blooded mammal no one would say that it couldn't have evolved. The question is "Is it possible?" The answer is "Yes."
– Mike Nichols
13 hours ago
2
This answer is correct; it's unlikely. However, it doesn't answer the question "would it be possible".
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
"walla red blood" - you mean "voilà"? :)
– Sergio Tulentsev
2 hours ago
1
1
Id like to hear why this got downvoted
– anon
14 hours ago
Id like to hear why this got downvoted
– anon
14 hours ago
I suppose because its a guess, and a wrong one. I don't like downvoting, but we shouldn't be guessing around here - speculating is ok, but not about matters which can be determined as matters of fact. I get downvoted too, and usually without explanation, sometimes I think unreasonably. I hope you don't feel that way about mine.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
I suppose because its a guess, and a wrong one. I don't like downvoting, but we shouldn't be guessing around here - speculating is ok, but not about matters which can be determined as matters of fact. I get downvoted too, and usually without explanation, sometimes I think unreasonably. I hope you don't feel that way about mine.
– theRiley
13 hours ago
1
1
There are an infinite number of possible reasons why a mammal might evolve blue blood and as you acknowledge no reason why blue color would necessarily be detrimental. Take the skink example. Why does it accumulate high quantities of biliverdin? Who knows. If the question was "Can a reptile evolve green blood?" and we hadn't discovered this family of skinks you could use this same answer to say that a green-blooded reptile would be unlikely to evolve. If there existed a blue-blooded mammal no one would say that it couldn't have evolved. The question is "Is it possible?" The answer is "Yes."
– Mike Nichols
13 hours ago
There are an infinite number of possible reasons why a mammal might evolve blue blood and as you acknowledge no reason why blue color would necessarily be detrimental. Take the skink example. Why does it accumulate high quantities of biliverdin? Who knows. If the question was "Can a reptile evolve green blood?" and we hadn't discovered this family of skinks you could use this same answer to say that a green-blooded reptile would be unlikely to evolve. If there existed a blue-blooded mammal no one would say that it couldn't have evolved. The question is "Is it possible?" The answer is "Yes."
– Mike Nichols
13 hours ago
2
2
This answer is correct; it's unlikely. However, it doesn't answer the question "would it be possible".
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
This answer is correct; it's unlikely. However, it doesn't answer the question "would it be possible".
– wizzwizz4
8 hours ago
1
1
"walla red blood" - you mean "voilà"? :)
– Sergio Tulentsev
2 hours ago
"walla red blood" - you mean "voilà"? :)
– Sergio Tulentsev
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
It is possible. Hemocyanin would be what you would use and not hemoglobin. As stated, hemocyanin is worse at oxygen transport, compared to hemoglobin. But not all hemocyanins are the same, there are more effecient versions with better cooperative binding.
If you go with methods of directed evolution, we use to produce better enzymes, you could hope to produce hemocyanin, that would be good replacement for hemoglobin.
That for sure would take a lot of changes in your body to make it work well after that. But it is possible.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It is possible. Hemocyanin would be what you would use and not hemoglobin. As stated, hemocyanin is worse at oxygen transport, compared to hemoglobin. But not all hemocyanins are the same, there are more effecient versions with better cooperative binding.
If you go with methods of directed evolution, we use to produce better enzymes, you could hope to produce hemocyanin, that would be good replacement for hemoglobin.
That for sure would take a lot of changes in your body to make it work well after that. But it is possible.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
It is possible. Hemocyanin would be what you would use and not hemoglobin. As stated, hemocyanin is worse at oxygen transport, compared to hemoglobin. But not all hemocyanins are the same, there are more effecient versions with better cooperative binding.
If you go with methods of directed evolution, we use to produce better enzymes, you could hope to produce hemocyanin, that would be good replacement for hemoglobin.
That for sure would take a lot of changes in your body to make it work well after that. But it is possible.
It is possible. Hemocyanin would be what you would use and not hemoglobin. As stated, hemocyanin is worse at oxygen transport, compared to hemoglobin. But not all hemocyanins are the same, there are more effecient versions with better cooperative binding.
If you go with methods of directed evolution, we use to produce better enzymes, you could hope to produce hemocyanin, that would be good replacement for hemoglobin.
That for sure would take a lot of changes in your body to make it work well after that. But it is possible.
answered 3 hours ago
Artemijs Danilovs
2575
2575
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I want to support @anon's answer of
Probably not
and substantiate their assumption with scientific fact:
Hemoglobin (red) is better at transporting oxygen at the body temperature of mammals (around 38°C). It would be an evolutionary disadvantage for a mammal to have hemocyanin, because it would suffer from permanent "lack of oxygen" relative to other mammals with hemoglobin. Think of the blue-blooded antelope being out of breath more quickly than the red-blooded antelope. The lions would eat all the blue-blooded antelopes first.
Hemocyanin is better at transporting oxygen at the low body temperatures that ectotherms often have to function with. Blue blood is an evolutionary advantage for animals with low or changing body temperatures.
It has been suggested that warm-bloodedness helped mammals (and birds) better cope with fluctuating temperatures during Earth's history. If that is correct, cold-bloodedness (and blue blood) would have led to the extinction of mammals.
Other sources:
- German wikipedia articles on body temperature and hemocyanin.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I want to support @anon's answer of
Probably not
and substantiate their assumption with scientific fact:
Hemoglobin (red) is better at transporting oxygen at the body temperature of mammals (around 38°C). It would be an evolutionary disadvantage for a mammal to have hemocyanin, because it would suffer from permanent "lack of oxygen" relative to other mammals with hemoglobin. Think of the blue-blooded antelope being out of breath more quickly than the red-blooded antelope. The lions would eat all the blue-blooded antelopes first.
Hemocyanin is better at transporting oxygen at the low body temperatures that ectotherms often have to function with. Blue blood is an evolutionary advantage for animals with low or changing body temperatures.
It has been suggested that warm-bloodedness helped mammals (and birds) better cope with fluctuating temperatures during Earth's history. If that is correct, cold-bloodedness (and blue blood) would have led to the extinction of mammals.
Other sources:
- German wikipedia articles on body temperature and hemocyanin.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I want to support @anon's answer of
Probably not
and substantiate their assumption with scientific fact:
Hemoglobin (red) is better at transporting oxygen at the body temperature of mammals (around 38°C). It would be an evolutionary disadvantage for a mammal to have hemocyanin, because it would suffer from permanent "lack of oxygen" relative to other mammals with hemoglobin. Think of the blue-blooded antelope being out of breath more quickly than the red-blooded antelope. The lions would eat all the blue-blooded antelopes first.
Hemocyanin is better at transporting oxygen at the low body temperatures that ectotherms often have to function with. Blue blood is an evolutionary advantage for animals with low or changing body temperatures.
It has been suggested that warm-bloodedness helped mammals (and birds) better cope with fluctuating temperatures during Earth's history. If that is correct, cold-bloodedness (and blue blood) would have led to the extinction of mammals.
Other sources:
- German wikipedia articles on body temperature and hemocyanin.
New contributor
I want to support @anon's answer of
Probably not
and substantiate their assumption with scientific fact:
Hemoglobin (red) is better at transporting oxygen at the body temperature of mammals (around 38°C). It would be an evolutionary disadvantage for a mammal to have hemocyanin, because it would suffer from permanent "lack of oxygen" relative to other mammals with hemoglobin. Think of the blue-blooded antelope being out of breath more quickly than the red-blooded antelope. The lions would eat all the blue-blooded antelopes first.
Hemocyanin is better at transporting oxygen at the low body temperatures that ectotherms often have to function with. Blue blood is an evolutionary advantage for animals with low or changing body temperatures.
It has been suggested that warm-bloodedness helped mammals (and birds) better cope with fluctuating temperatures during Earth's history. If that is correct, cold-bloodedness (and blue blood) would have led to the extinction of mammals.
Other sources:
- German wikipedia articles on body temperature and hemocyanin.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 1 hour ago
user57423
11
11
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
Speculatur is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Speculatur is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Speculatur is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Speculatur is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f130546%2fwould-it-be-possible-for-mammals-to-evolve-blue-blood%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
4
Possible duplicate of Other blood colors
– dot_Sp0T
10 hours ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channichthyidae
– Ville Niemi
9 hours ago
An interesting read on blood colors: compoundchem.com/2014/10/28/coloursofblood
– MTCoster
4 hours ago
Not exactly a duplicate: the other query simply asks about blood colours based on metal content. This query specifies blood colour within mammalian biology. A different kettle of fish!
– elemtilas
1 hour ago