Proving such a function is always constant
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Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.
Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.
Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$
I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?
real-analysis
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up vote
4
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favorite
Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.
Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.
Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$
I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?
real-analysis
Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
7 hours ago
The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.
Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.
Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$
I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?
real-analysis
Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.
Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.
Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$
I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?
real-analysis
real-analysis
edited 4 hours ago
amWhy
191k27223437
191k27223437
asked 13 hours ago
Ahmad Lamaa
1265
1265
Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
7 hours ago
The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
7 hours ago
The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
3 hours ago
Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
7 hours ago
Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
7 hours ago
The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
3 hours ago
The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
3 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
We will proceed by contradiction:
I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement
$c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$
if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.
Contradiction Q.E.D.
I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
– Yadati Kiran
13 hours ago
1
Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
– Aleks J
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.
New contributor
Typo? It looks as though you meant to say because it takes values (rather than because take values).
– PJTraill
6 hours ago
@PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
– Dante Grevino
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.
Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.
The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
We will proceed by contradiction:
I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement
$c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$
if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.
Contradiction Q.E.D.
I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
– Yadati Kiran
13 hours ago
1
Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
– Aleks J
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
We will proceed by contradiction:
I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement
$c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$
if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.
Contradiction Q.E.D.
I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
– Yadati Kiran
13 hours ago
1
Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
– Aleks J
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
We will proceed by contradiction:
I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement
$c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$
if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.
Contradiction Q.E.D.
We will proceed by contradiction:
I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement
$c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$
if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.
Contradiction Q.E.D.
answered 13 hours ago
Aleks J
1796
1796
I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
– Yadati Kiran
13 hours ago
1
Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
– Aleks J
13 hours ago
add a comment |
I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
– Yadati Kiran
13 hours ago
1
Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
– Aleks J
13 hours ago
I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
– Yadati Kiran
13 hours ago
I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
– Yadati Kiran
13 hours ago
1
1
Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
– Aleks J
13 hours ago
Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
– Aleks J
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.
New contributor
Typo? It looks as though you meant to say because it takes values (rather than because take values).
– PJTraill
6 hours ago
@PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
– Dante Grevino
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.
New contributor
Typo? It looks as though you meant to say because it takes values (rather than because take values).
– PJTraill
6 hours ago
@PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
– Dante Grevino
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.
New contributor
Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
New contributor
answered 13 hours ago
Dante Grevino
2364
2364
New contributor
New contributor
Typo? It looks as though you meant to say because it takes values (rather than because take values).
– PJTraill
6 hours ago
@PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
– Dante Grevino
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Typo? It looks as though you meant to say because it takes values (rather than because take values).
– PJTraill
6 hours ago
@PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
– Dante Grevino
5 hours ago
Typo? It looks as though you meant to say because it takes values (rather than because take values).
– PJTraill
6 hours ago
Typo? It looks as though you meant to say because it takes values (rather than because take values).
– PJTraill
6 hours ago
@PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
– Dante Grevino
5 hours ago
@PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
– Dante Grevino
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.
The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.
answered 8 hours ago
Hagen von Eitzen
274k21266494
274k21266494
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.
Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.
The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.
Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.
The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.
Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.
The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.
You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.
Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.
The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.
answered 2 hours ago
Paramanand Singh
48.1k555156
48.1k555156
add a comment |
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Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
7 hours ago
The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
3 hours ago