What determines the amount of lag you receive after air dodging?












6














After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?










share|improve this question



























    6














    After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?










    share|improve this question

























      6












      6








      6







      After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?










      share|improve this question













      After directional air dodging in Smash Ultimate, it seems like I'm sometimes able to act almost immediately afterwards while other times I can fall all the way to the blast zone without being able to jump afterwards. Is the lag always constant after air dodging and I'm just crazy, or is the lag determined by something (percent, or maybe it stales the same way rolling on stage does?)?







      super-smash-bros-ultimate






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 1 hour ago









      Allball103

      441213




      441213






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          6














          Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



          This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



          For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




          Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

          1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

          2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

          3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

          4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

          5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




          As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



          The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



          But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



          Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




          Fox Up: 76

          Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

          Fox Side: 65

          Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

          Fox Down: 54




          Now that might look pretty rough (and it is! An FAF of 60 is insane, not to mention 76 if you tried to dodge up and missed ledge. And these are all un-staled! If the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale.), but the dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



          So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






          share|improve this answer























            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "41"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgaming.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f344230%2fwhat-determines-the-amount-of-lag-you-receive-after-air-dodging%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            6














            Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



            This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



            For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




            Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

            1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

            2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

            3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

            4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

            5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




            As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



            The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



            But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



            Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




            Fox Up: 76

            Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

            Fox Side: 65

            Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

            Fox Down: 54




            Now that might look pretty rough (and it is! An FAF of 60 is insane, not to mention 76 if you tried to dodge up and missed ledge. And these are all un-staled! If the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale.), but the dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



            So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






            share|improve this answer




























              6














              Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



              This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



              For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




              Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

              1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

              2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

              3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

              4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

              5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




              As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



              The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



              But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



              Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




              Fox Up: 76

              Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

              Fox Side: 65

              Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

              Fox Down: 54




              Now that might look pretty rough (and it is! An FAF of 60 is insane, not to mention 76 if you tried to dodge up and missed ledge. And these are all un-staled! If the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale.), but the dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



              So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






              share|improve this answer


























                6












                6








                6






                Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



                This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



                For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




                Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

                1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

                2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

                3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

                4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

                5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




                As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



                The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



                But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



                Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




                Fox Up: 76

                Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

                Fox Side: 65

                Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

                Fox Down: 54




                Now that might look pretty rough (and it is! An FAF of 60 is insane, not to mention 76 if you tried to dodge up and missed ledge. And these are all un-staled! If the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale.), but the dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



                So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.






                share|improve this answer














                Smash Ultimate is different from all other titles in the series in that dodges now stale like other moves (I've heard this called both "dodge staling" and "dodge decay").



                This means that the more you dodge, the slower the dodge will come out, and the more lag you'll have after dodging. This staling mechanic encompasses every dodge. This means that more rolls and spot dodges on stage will stale your air dodges off-stage.



                For example, here's Wolf's back roll frame data (taken from here):




                Fresh: Int: 5-16 FAF: 34

                1 Stale: Int: 5-14 FAF: 38

                2 Stale: Int: 6-14 FAF: 41

                3 Stale: Int: 7-14 FAF: 45

                4 Stale: Int: 8-14 FAF: 48

                5 Stale: Int: 9-14 FAF: 51




                As you can see, the intangibility of the back roll starts later, ends earlier and the FAF--or "First Actionable Frame" (first frame you can act)--gets waaaaay later.



                The same is true for air dodges. The more you've been dodging (whether in the air or on the ground), the longer it'll take for you to be able to act out of an air dodge. Directional air dodges specifically can be brutally punishing if they're exceedingly stale.



                But here's where things get interesting. The FAF on air dodges actually depends on the direction you air dodge in!



                Using Fox as an example, his un-stale FAF values look like:




                Fox Up: 76

                Fox Diagonal Up: 70ish

                Fox Side: 65

                Fox Diagonal Down: 60ish

                Fox Down: 54




                Now that might look pretty rough (and it is! An FAF of 60 is insane, not to mention 76 if you tried to dodge up and missed ledge. And these are all un-staled! If the rolls are anything to go by, these FAF values can be up to 20 frames greater at max stale.), but the dodge with the best FAF of them all is neutral air dodge. Fox's FAF for neutral air dodge is only 38! That's a whopping half of an upwards air dodge!!



                So if you find yourself dying to off-stage air dodges often, I'd strongly suggest working on doing neutral air dodges instead of trying for a directional air dodge as you'll be far less likely to fall too low and kill yourself before you can act.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 1 hour ago

























                answered 1 hour ago









                scohe001

                683211




                683211






























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded




















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Arqade!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                    Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                    Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgaming.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f344230%2fwhat-determines-the-amount-of-lag-you-receive-after-air-dodging%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Costa Masnaga

                    Fotorealismo

                    Sidney Franklin