Is there a relationship between the words “night” and “eight”?











up vote
71
down vote

favorite
8












I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?










share|improve this question




















  • 114




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    Nov 19 at 23:33






  • 15




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 19 at 23:57






  • 17




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    Nov 20 at 2:50






  • 74




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    Nov 20 at 2:53






  • 15




    Regarding the nonsense The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity number turned. The turned-sideways eight (∞) is a rather recent invention, recent enough that we know exactly who and when: John Wallis in 1655. I do believe people counted to eight and went to bed at night well before 1655.
    – David Hammen
    Nov 20 at 12:09















up vote
71
down vote

favorite
8












I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?










share|improve this question




















  • 114




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    Nov 19 at 23:33






  • 15




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 19 at 23:57






  • 17




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    Nov 20 at 2:50






  • 74




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    Nov 20 at 2:53






  • 15




    Regarding the nonsense The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity number turned. The turned-sideways eight (∞) is a rather recent invention, recent enough that we know exactly who and when: John Wallis in 1655. I do believe people counted to eight and went to bed at night well before 1655.
    – David Hammen
    Nov 20 at 12:09













up vote
71
down vote

favorite
8









up vote
71
down vote

favorite
8






8





I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?










share|improve this question















I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?







etymology






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Nov 24 at 16:31









Nate Eldredge

5,10432635




5,10432635










asked Nov 19 at 22:12









bilbo_pingouin

510149




510149








  • 114




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    Nov 19 at 23:33






  • 15




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 19 at 23:57






  • 17




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    Nov 20 at 2:50






  • 74




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    Nov 20 at 2:53






  • 15




    Regarding the nonsense The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity number turned. The turned-sideways eight (∞) is a rather recent invention, recent enough that we know exactly who and when: John Wallis in 1655. I do believe people counted to eight and went to bed at night well before 1655.
    – David Hammen
    Nov 20 at 12:09














  • 114




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    Nov 19 at 23:33






  • 15




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 19 at 23:57






  • 17




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    Nov 20 at 2:50






  • 74




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    Nov 20 at 2:53






  • 15




    Regarding the nonsense The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity number turned. The turned-sideways eight (∞) is a rather recent invention, recent enough that we know exactly who and when: John Wallis in 1655. I do believe people counted to eight and went to bed at night well before 1655.
    – David Hammen
    Nov 20 at 12:09








114




114




I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
– Nate Eldredge
Nov 19 at 23:33




I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
– Nate Eldredge
Nov 19 at 23:33




15




15




Related: Linguistics.SE question
– Oddthinking
Nov 19 at 23:57




Related: Linguistics.SE question
– Oddthinking
Nov 19 at 23:57




17




17




To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
– IMil
Nov 20 at 2:50




To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
– IMil
Nov 20 at 2:50




74




74




@NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
– hobbs
Nov 20 at 2:53




@NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
– hobbs
Nov 20 at 2:53




15




15




Regarding the nonsense The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity number turned. The turned-sideways eight (∞) is a rather recent invention, recent enough that we know exactly who and when: John Wallis in 1655. I do believe people counted to eight and went to bed at night well before 1655.
– David Hammen
Nov 20 at 12:09




Regarding the nonsense The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity number turned. The turned-sideways eight (∞) is a rather recent invention, recent enough that we know exactly who and when: John Wallis in 1655. I do believe people counted to eight and went to bed at night well before 1655.
– David Hammen
Nov 20 at 12:09










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
93
down vote



accepted










No, they are unrelated.



Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




  • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

  • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked").


As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.



Sources:




  • McPherson, Fiona. Indo-European Cognate Dictionary. Wayz Press, 2018. (Google Books link)



Derivation of eight



Derivation of night





  • Watkins, Calvert. The American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots. Houghton Mifflin, 2000. (Google Books link)



Derivatives of eight



Words for night







share|improve this answer



















  • 7




    Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 0:20






  • 9




    We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 2:56






  • 15




    @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 20 at 17:48






  • 3




    I would not call it a coincidence. Basically you have 2 words in protolanguage that contain a very similar core phoneme cluster, so it is actually rather natural they follow a rather similar evolutionary pattern. The only coincidence is at the root, i.e. the similarity in the proto-language (i.e. a single, isolated case where this occurs).
    – Eleshar
    Nov 20 at 22:49






  • 4




    @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 21 at 1:10


















up vote
59
down vote













In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Yep, statistically speaking, that out of 7079 languages there should be loads of similarities that are merely coincidental. With such a microscopic and non-independent sample of them as shown in op. This can only be dismissed as chance, even if it would be a great and intriguing party conversation.
    – not2qubit
    Nov 26 at 12:33




















up vote
-4
down vote













No, night and day come from old Norse.



https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




nátt { noun feminine }
The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"1) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"1) is day personified.




Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.



The following photo comes from "Discovering Runes" by Bob Oswald, page 160. You can see an alternative spelling of the rune is dagr, which means day.



discovering runs bob oswald page 160



I don't know what is wrong with the image upload feature. The image is the correct orientation when I view it in Windows Explorer and also in XnView.






share|improve this answer



















  • 12




    Your last sentence is either badly worded or just plainly wrong. First, Old Norse is not a particularly old language; Old English is at least 200 years older. Second, both languages are Germanic languages, but belong to different branches (West and North Germanic, respectively). Third, while Old Norse did have an influence on Old English when there were Scandinavian settlers in England during the 9th (and partly 10th) century, it's completely misleading to claim that English is derived in any way from Old Norse. In particular, night is of West Germanic origin, and not derived via Old Norse.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 1:28












  • OK You could say night is a loanword from old Norse, just like the days of the week and compass directions.
    – Chloe
    Nov 22 at 4:17








  • 9




    No, it's just wrong to say that English borrowed night from Old Norse. In basically all West Germanic languages (such as English, Dutch and German) as well as North Germanic languages (such as Swedish or Danish) the word has descended from the same prehistoric Germanic root *nakht. The relation between the Old English word for night and the Old Norse one is as best as close as that between you and your niece.The same is also true for day and the words for compass directions. Really, please get your facts right – this can easily checked with any etymological dictionary.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 9:07








  • 3




    This answer is factually incorrect in pretty much every aspect. Night and day in English are completely separate from their Old Norse forms. They were not borrowed, nor inherited, nor in any other way influenced by the Old Norse forms; they developed quite independently within English. This is quite easily seen from the facts that (a) night retains its ⟨gh⟩ which was written as ⟨ch⟩ (and pronounced!) long after Old Norse, and (b) day was written with ⟨æ⟩ for centuries, a letter not used to represent ON /a/. Dagr borrowed into OE would probably have yielded *daw instead.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 23 at 18:02



















3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
93
down vote



accepted










No, they are unrelated.



Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




  • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

  • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked").


As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.



Sources:




  • McPherson, Fiona. Indo-European Cognate Dictionary. Wayz Press, 2018. (Google Books link)



Derivation of eight



Derivation of night





  • Watkins, Calvert. The American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots. Houghton Mifflin, 2000. (Google Books link)



Derivatives of eight



Words for night







share|improve this answer



















  • 7




    Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 0:20






  • 9




    We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 2:56






  • 15




    @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 20 at 17:48






  • 3




    I would not call it a coincidence. Basically you have 2 words in protolanguage that contain a very similar core phoneme cluster, so it is actually rather natural they follow a rather similar evolutionary pattern. The only coincidence is at the root, i.e. the similarity in the proto-language (i.e. a single, isolated case where this occurs).
    – Eleshar
    Nov 20 at 22:49






  • 4




    @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 21 at 1:10















up vote
93
down vote



accepted










No, they are unrelated.



Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




  • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

  • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked").


As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.



Sources:




  • McPherson, Fiona. Indo-European Cognate Dictionary. Wayz Press, 2018. (Google Books link)



Derivation of eight



Derivation of night





  • Watkins, Calvert. The American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots. Houghton Mifflin, 2000. (Google Books link)



Derivatives of eight



Words for night







share|improve this answer



















  • 7




    Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 0:20






  • 9




    We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 2:56






  • 15




    @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 20 at 17:48






  • 3




    I would not call it a coincidence. Basically you have 2 words in protolanguage that contain a very similar core phoneme cluster, so it is actually rather natural they follow a rather similar evolutionary pattern. The only coincidence is at the root, i.e. the similarity in the proto-language (i.e. a single, isolated case where this occurs).
    – Eleshar
    Nov 20 at 22:49






  • 4




    @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 21 at 1:10













up vote
93
down vote



accepted







up vote
93
down vote



accepted






No, they are unrelated.



Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




  • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

  • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked").


As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.



Sources:




  • McPherson, Fiona. Indo-European Cognate Dictionary. Wayz Press, 2018. (Google Books link)



Derivation of eight



Derivation of night





  • Watkins, Calvert. The American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots. Houghton Mifflin, 2000. (Google Books link)



Derivatives of eight



Words for night







share|improve this answer














No, they are unrelated.



Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




  • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

  • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked").


As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.



Sources:




  • McPherson, Fiona. Indo-European Cognate Dictionary. Wayz Press, 2018. (Google Books link)



Derivation of eight



Derivation of night





  • Watkins, Calvert. The American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots. Houghton Mifflin, 2000. (Google Books link)



Derivatives of eight



Words for night








share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 26 at 16:45









Oddthinking

99.1k31411521




99.1k31411521










answered Nov 20 at 0:09









bobbib

82434




82434








  • 7




    Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 0:20






  • 9




    We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 2:56






  • 15




    @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 20 at 17:48






  • 3




    I would not call it a coincidence. Basically you have 2 words in protolanguage that contain a very similar core phoneme cluster, so it is actually rather natural they follow a rather similar evolutionary pattern. The only coincidence is at the root, i.e. the similarity in the proto-language (i.e. a single, isolated case where this occurs).
    – Eleshar
    Nov 20 at 22:49






  • 4




    @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 21 at 1:10














  • 7




    Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 0:20






  • 9




    We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 20 at 2:56






  • 15




    @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 20 at 17:48






  • 3




    I would not call it a coincidence. Basically you have 2 words in protolanguage that contain a very similar core phoneme cluster, so it is actually rather natural they follow a rather similar evolutionary pattern. The only coincidence is at the root, i.e. the similarity in the proto-language (i.e. a single, isolated case where this occurs).
    – Eleshar
    Nov 20 at 22:49






  • 4




    @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
    – Oddthinking
    Nov 21 at 1:10








7




7




Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
– Oddthinking
Nov 20 at 0:20




Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
– Oddthinking
Nov 20 at 0:20




9




9




We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
– Oddthinking
Nov 20 at 2:56




We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
– Oddthinking
Nov 20 at 2:56




15




15




@Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 20 at 17:48




@Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 20 at 17:48




3




3




I would not call it a coincidence. Basically you have 2 words in protolanguage that contain a very similar core phoneme cluster, so it is actually rather natural they follow a rather similar evolutionary pattern. The only coincidence is at the root, i.e. the similarity in the proto-language (i.e. a single, isolated case where this occurs).
– Eleshar
Nov 20 at 22:49




I would not call it a coincidence. Basically you have 2 words in protolanguage that contain a very similar core phoneme cluster, so it is actually rather natural they follow a rather similar evolutionary pattern. The only coincidence is at the root, i.e. the similarity in the proto-language (i.e. a single, isolated case where this occurs).
– Eleshar
Nov 20 at 22:49




4




4




@JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
– Oddthinking
Nov 21 at 1:10




@JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
– Oddthinking
Nov 21 at 1:10










up vote
59
down vote













In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Yep, statistically speaking, that out of 7079 languages there should be loads of similarities that are merely coincidental. With such a microscopic and non-independent sample of them as shown in op. This can only be dismissed as chance, even if it would be a great and intriguing party conversation.
    – not2qubit
    Nov 26 at 12:33

















up vote
59
down vote













In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Yep, statistically speaking, that out of 7079 languages there should be loads of similarities that are merely coincidental. With such a microscopic and non-independent sample of them as shown in op. This can only be dismissed as chance, even if it would be a great and intriguing party conversation.
    – not2qubit
    Nov 26 at 12:33















up vote
59
down vote










up vote
59
down vote









In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






share|improve this answer














In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 20 at 22:17

























answered Nov 20 at 8:09









Dmitry Grigoryev

1,004415




1,004415








  • 1




    Yep, statistically speaking, that out of 7079 languages there should be loads of similarities that are merely coincidental. With such a microscopic and non-independent sample of them as shown in op. This can only be dismissed as chance, even if it would be a great and intriguing party conversation.
    – not2qubit
    Nov 26 at 12:33
















  • 1




    Yep, statistically speaking, that out of 7079 languages there should be loads of similarities that are merely coincidental. With such a microscopic and non-independent sample of them as shown in op. This can only be dismissed as chance, even if it would be a great and intriguing party conversation.
    – not2qubit
    Nov 26 at 12:33










1




1




Yep, statistically speaking, that out of 7079 languages there should be loads of similarities that are merely coincidental. With such a microscopic and non-independent sample of them as shown in op. This can only be dismissed as chance, even if it would be a great and intriguing party conversation.
– not2qubit
Nov 26 at 12:33






Yep, statistically speaking, that out of 7079 languages there should be loads of similarities that are merely coincidental. With such a microscopic and non-independent sample of them as shown in op. This can only be dismissed as chance, even if it would be a great and intriguing party conversation.
– not2qubit
Nov 26 at 12:33












up vote
-4
down vote













No, night and day come from old Norse.



https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




nátt { noun feminine }
The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"1) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"1) is day personified.




Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.



The following photo comes from "Discovering Runes" by Bob Oswald, page 160. You can see an alternative spelling of the rune is dagr, which means day.



discovering runs bob oswald page 160



I don't know what is wrong with the image upload feature. The image is the correct orientation when I view it in Windows Explorer and also in XnView.






share|improve this answer



















  • 12




    Your last sentence is either badly worded or just plainly wrong. First, Old Norse is not a particularly old language; Old English is at least 200 years older. Second, both languages are Germanic languages, but belong to different branches (West and North Germanic, respectively). Third, while Old Norse did have an influence on Old English when there were Scandinavian settlers in England during the 9th (and partly 10th) century, it's completely misleading to claim that English is derived in any way from Old Norse. In particular, night is of West Germanic origin, and not derived via Old Norse.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 1:28












  • OK You could say night is a loanword from old Norse, just like the days of the week and compass directions.
    – Chloe
    Nov 22 at 4:17








  • 9




    No, it's just wrong to say that English borrowed night from Old Norse. In basically all West Germanic languages (such as English, Dutch and German) as well as North Germanic languages (such as Swedish or Danish) the word has descended from the same prehistoric Germanic root *nakht. The relation between the Old English word for night and the Old Norse one is as best as close as that between you and your niece.The same is also true for day and the words for compass directions. Really, please get your facts right – this can easily checked with any etymological dictionary.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 9:07








  • 3




    This answer is factually incorrect in pretty much every aspect. Night and day in English are completely separate from their Old Norse forms. They were not borrowed, nor inherited, nor in any other way influenced by the Old Norse forms; they developed quite independently within English. This is quite easily seen from the facts that (a) night retains its ⟨gh⟩ which was written as ⟨ch⟩ (and pronounced!) long after Old Norse, and (b) day was written with ⟨æ⟩ for centuries, a letter not used to represent ON /a/. Dagr borrowed into OE would probably have yielded *daw instead.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 23 at 18:02















up vote
-4
down vote













No, night and day come from old Norse.



https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




nátt { noun feminine }
The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"1) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"1) is day personified.




Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.



The following photo comes from "Discovering Runes" by Bob Oswald, page 160. You can see an alternative spelling of the rune is dagr, which means day.



discovering runs bob oswald page 160



I don't know what is wrong with the image upload feature. The image is the correct orientation when I view it in Windows Explorer and also in XnView.






share|improve this answer



















  • 12




    Your last sentence is either badly worded or just plainly wrong. First, Old Norse is not a particularly old language; Old English is at least 200 years older. Second, both languages are Germanic languages, but belong to different branches (West and North Germanic, respectively). Third, while Old Norse did have an influence on Old English when there were Scandinavian settlers in England during the 9th (and partly 10th) century, it's completely misleading to claim that English is derived in any way from Old Norse. In particular, night is of West Germanic origin, and not derived via Old Norse.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 1:28












  • OK You could say night is a loanword from old Norse, just like the days of the week and compass directions.
    – Chloe
    Nov 22 at 4:17








  • 9




    No, it's just wrong to say that English borrowed night from Old Norse. In basically all West Germanic languages (such as English, Dutch and German) as well as North Germanic languages (such as Swedish or Danish) the word has descended from the same prehistoric Germanic root *nakht. The relation between the Old English word for night and the Old Norse one is as best as close as that between you and your niece.The same is also true for day and the words for compass directions. Really, please get your facts right – this can easily checked with any etymological dictionary.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 9:07








  • 3




    This answer is factually incorrect in pretty much every aspect. Night and day in English are completely separate from their Old Norse forms. They were not borrowed, nor inherited, nor in any other way influenced by the Old Norse forms; they developed quite independently within English. This is quite easily seen from the facts that (a) night retains its ⟨gh⟩ which was written as ⟨ch⟩ (and pronounced!) long after Old Norse, and (b) day was written with ⟨æ⟩ for centuries, a letter not used to represent ON /a/. Dagr borrowed into OE would probably have yielded *daw instead.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 23 at 18:02













up vote
-4
down vote










up vote
-4
down vote









No, night and day come from old Norse.



https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




nátt { noun feminine }
The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"1) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"1) is day personified.




Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.



The following photo comes from "Discovering Runes" by Bob Oswald, page 160. You can see an alternative spelling of the rune is dagr, which means day.



discovering runs bob oswald page 160



I don't know what is wrong with the image upload feature. The image is the correct orientation when I view it in Windows Explorer and also in XnView.






share|improve this answer














No, night and day come from old Norse.



https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




nátt { noun feminine }
The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"1) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"1) is day personified.




Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.



The following photo comes from "Discovering Runes" by Bob Oswald, page 160. You can see an alternative spelling of the rune is dagr, which means day.



discovering runs bob oswald page 160



I don't know what is wrong with the image upload feature. The image is the correct orientation when I view it in Windows Explorer and also in XnView.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered Nov 22 at 0:06









Chloe

89511015




89511015








  • 12




    Your last sentence is either badly worded or just plainly wrong. First, Old Norse is not a particularly old language; Old English is at least 200 years older. Second, both languages are Germanic languages, but belong to different branches (West and North Germanic, respectively). Third, while Old Norse did have an influence on Old English when there were Scandinavian settlers in England during the 9th (and partly 10th) century, it's completely misleading to claim that English is derived in any way from Old Norse. In particular, night is of West Germanic origin, and not derived via Old Norse.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 1:28












  • OK You could say night is a loanword from old Norse, just like the days of the week and compass directions.
    – Chloe
    Nov 22 at 4:17








  • 9




    No, it's just wrong to say that English borrowed night from Old Norse. In basically all West Germanic languages (such as English, Dutch and German) as well as North Germanic languages (such as Swedish or Danish) the word has descended from the same prehistoric Germanic root *nakht. The relation between the Old English word for night and the Old Norse one is as best as close as that between you and your niece.The same is also true for day and the words for compass directions. Really, please get your facts right – this can easily checked with any etymological dictionary.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 9:07








  • 3




    This answer is factually incorrect in pretty much every aspect. Night and day in English are completely separate from their Old Norse forms. They were not borrowed, nor inherited, nor in any other way influenced by the Old Norse forms; they developed quite independently within English. This is quite easily seen from the facts that (a) night retains its ⟨gh⟩ which was written as ⟨ch⟩ (and pronounced!) long after Old Norse, and (b) day was written with ⟨æ⟩ for centuries, a letter not used to represent ON /a/. Dagr borrowed into OE would probably have yielded *daw instead.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 23 at 18:02














  • 12




    Your last sentence is either badly worded or just plainly wrong. First, Old Norse is not a particularly old language; Old English is at least 200 years older. Second, both languages are Germanic languages, but belong to different branches (West and North Germanic, respectively). Third, while Old Norse did have an influence on Old English when there were Scandinavian settlers in England during the 9th (and partly 10th) century, it's completely misleading to claim that English is derived in any way from Old Norse. In particular, night is of West Germanic origin, and not derived via Old Norse.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 1:28












  • OK You could say night is a loanword from old Norse, just like the days of the week and compass directions.
    – Chloe
    Nov 22 at 4:17








  • 9




    No, it's just wrong to say that English borrowed night from Old Norse. In basically all West Germanic languages (such as English, Dutch and German) as well as North Germanic languages (such as Swedish or Danish) the word has descended from the same prehistoric Germanic root *nakht. The relation between the Old English word for night and the Old Norse one is as best as close as that between you and your niece.The same is also true for day and the words for compass directions. Really, please get your facts right – this can easily checked with any etymological dictionary.
    – Schmuddi
    Nov 22 at 9:07








  • 3




    This answer is factually incorrect in pretty much every aspect. Night and day in English are completely separate from their Old Norse forms. They were not borrowed, nor inherited, nor in any other way influenced by the Old Norse forms; they developed quite independently within English. This is quite easily seen from the facts that (a) night retains its ⟨gh⟩ which was written as ⟨ch⟩ (and pronounced!) long after Old Norse, and (b) day was written with ⟨æ⟩ for centuries, a letter not used to represent ON /a/. Dagr borrowed into OE would probably have yielded *daw instead.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Nov 23 at 18:02








12




12




Your last sentence is either badly worded or just plainly wrong. First, Old Norse is not a particularly old language; Old English is at least 200 years older. Second, both languages are Germanic languages, but belong to different branches (West and North Germanic, respectively). Third, while Old Norse did have an influence on Old English when there were Scandinavian settlers in England during the 9th (and partly 10th) century, it's completely misleading to claim that English is derived in any way from Old Norse. In particular, night is of West Germanic origin, and not derived via Old Norse.
– Schmuddi
Nov 22 at 1:28






Your last sentence is either badly worded or just plainly wrong. First, Old Norse is not a particularly old language; Old English is at least 200 years older. Second, both languages are Germanic languages, but belong to different branches (West and North Germanic, respectively). Third, while Old Norse did have an influence on Old English when there were Scandinavian settlers in England during the 9th (and partly 10th) century, it's completely misleading to claim that English is derived in any way from Old Norse. In particular, night is of West Germanic origin, and not derived via Old Norse.
– Schmuddi
Nov 22 at 1:28














OK You could say night is a loanword from old Norse, just like the days of the week and compass directions.
– Chloe
Nov 22 at 4:17






OK You could say night is a loanword from old Norse, just like the days of the week and compass directions.
– Chloe
Nov 22 at 4:17






9




9




No, it's just wrong to say that English borrowed night from Old Norse. In basically all West Germanic languages (such as English, Dutch and German) as well as North Germanic languages (such as Swedish or Danish) the word has descended from the same prehistoric Germanic root *nakht. The relation between the Old English word for night and the Old Norse one is as best as close as that between you and your niece.The same is also true for day and the words for compass directions. Really, please get your facts right – this can easily checked with any etymological dictionary.
– Schmuddi
Nov 22 at 9:07






No, it's just wrong to say that English borrowed night from Old Norse. In basically all West Germanic languages (such as English, Dutch and German) as well as North Germanic languages (such as Swedish or Danish) the word has descended from the same prehistoric Germanic root *nakht. The relation between the Old English word for night and the Old Norse one is as best as close as that between you and your niece.The same is also true for day and the words for compass directions. Really, please get your facts right – this can easily checked with any etymological dictionary.
– Schmuddi
Nov 22 at 9:07






3




3




This answer is factually incorrect in pretty much every aspect. Night and day in English are completely separate from their Old Norse forms. They were not borrowed, nor inherited, nor in any other way influenced by the Old Norse forms; they developed quite independently within English. This is quite easily seen from the facts that (a) night retains its ⟨gh⟩ which was written as ⟨ch⟩ (and pronounced!) long after Old Norse, and (b) day was written with ⟨æ⟩ for centuries, a letter not used to represent ON /a/. Dagr borrowed into OE would probably have yielded *daw instead.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 18:02




This answer is factually incorrect in pretty much every aspect. Night and day in English are completely separate from their Old Norse forms. They were not borrowed, nor inherited, nor in any other way influenced by the Old Norse forms; they developed quite independently within English. This is quite easily seen from the facts that (a) night retains its ⟨gh⟩ which was written as ⟨ch⟩ (and pronounced!) long after Old Norse, and (b) day was written with ⟨æ⟩ for centuries, a letter not used to represent ON /a/. Dagr borrowed into OE would probably have yielded *daw instead.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Nov 23 at 18:02



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