Can I apply multiple doses of Basic Poison to a weapon and get a cumulative effect?












7












$begingroup$


Suppose I have two vials of Basic Poison:




You can use the poison in this vial to coat one slashing or piercing weapon or up to three pieces of ammunition. Applying the poison takes an action. A creature hit by the poisoned weapon or ammunition must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or take 1d4 poison damage. Once applied, the poison retains potency for 1 minute before drying.




I take an action to apply one dose to my sword, and then another action to apply a second dose. Then I hit a monster with my sword. Does the effect accumulate, with each poison causing an additional 1d4 damage (for a total of 2d4 on top of the normal weapon's damage)?



There are rules about not being able to accumulate multiple of the same condition, or the same magical effect, but I'm not sure there are any rules about combining mundane effects like this.



If there's no official answer, I'd appreciate any reasoning to help me make a ruling as a DM. I have a player whose character recently acquired an Alchemy Jug (which can make Basic Poison), and has asked me how multiple doses at once would work. I'm not sure whether poison ought to be something that is either there or not (and multiple doses wouldn't change anything other than maybe extending the duration) or whether applying more poison ought to be more harmful than applying less. Both interpretations seem reasonable to me.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    7












    $begingroup$


    Suppose I have two vials of Basic Poison:




    You can use the poison in this vial to coat one slashing or piercing weapon or up to three pieces of ammunition. Applying the poison takes an action. A creature hit by the poisoned weapon or ammunition must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or take 1d4 poison damage. Once applied, the poison retains potency for 1 minute before drying.




    I take an action to apply one dose to my sword, and then another action to apply a second dose. Then I hit a monster with my sword. Does the effect accumulate, with each poison causing an additional 1d4 damage (for a total of 2d4 on top of the normal weapon's damage)?



    There are rules about not being able to accumulate multiple of the same condition, or the same magical effect, but I'm not sure there are any rules about combining mundane effects like this.



    If there's no official answer, I'd appreciate any reasoning to help me make a ruling as a DM. I have a player whose character recently acquired an Alchemy Jug (which can make Basic Poison), and has asked me how multiple doses at once would work. I'm not sure whether poison ought to be something that is either there or not (and multiple doses wouldn't change anything other than maybe extending the duration) or whether applying more poison ought to be more harmful than applying less. Both interpretations seem reasonable to me.










    share|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      7












      7








      7





      $begingroup$


      Suppose I have two vials of Basic Poison:




      You can use the poison in this vial to coat one slashing or piercing weapon or up to three pieces of ammunition. Applying the poison takes an action. A creature hit by the poisoned weapon or ammunition must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or take 1d4 poison damage. Once applied, the poison retains potency for 1 minute before drying.




      I take an action to apply one dose to my sword, and then another action to apply a second dose. Then I hit a monster with my sword. Does the effect accumulate, with each poison causing an additional 1d4 damage (for a total of 2d4 on top of the normal weapon's damage)?



      There are rules about not being able to accumulate multiple of the same condition, or the same magical effect, but I'm not sure there are any rules about combining mundane effects like this.



      If there's no official answer, I'd appreciate any reasoning to help me make a ruling as a DM. I have a player whose character recently acquired an Alchemy Jug (which can make Basic Poison), and has asked me how multiple doses at once would work. I'm not sure whether poison ought to be something that is either there or not (and multiple doses wouldn't change anything other than maybe extending the duration) or whether applying more poison ought to be more harmful than applying less. Both interpretations seem reasonable to me.










      share|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Suppose I have two vials of Basic Poison:




      You can use the poison in this vial to coat one slashing or piercing weapon or up to three pieces of ammunition. Applying the poison takes an action. A creature hit by the poisoned weapon or ammunition must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or take 1d4 poison damage. Once applied, the poison retains potency for 1 minute before drying.




      I take an action to apply one dose to my sword, and then another action to apply a second dose. Then I hit a monster with my sword. Does the effect accumulate, with each poison causing an additional 1d4 damage (for a total of 2d4 on top of the normal weapon's damage)?



      There are rules about not being able to accumulate multiple of the same condition, or the same magical effect, but I'm not sure there are any rules about combining mundane effects like this.



      If there's no official answer, I'd appreciate any reasoning to help me make a ruling as a DM. I have a player whose character recently acquired an Alchemy Jug (which can make Basic Poison), and has asked me how multiple doses at once would work. I'm not sure whether poison ought to be something that is either there or not (and multiple doses wouldn't change anything other than maybe extending the duration) or whether applying more poison ought to be more harmful than applying less. Both interpretations seem reasonable to me.







      dnd-5e poison stacking






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      asked Nov 25 '18 at 0:30









      Peter Cooper Jr.Peter Cooper Jr.

      4,64541971




      4,64541971






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          18












          $begingroup$

          Game effects, not just magical effects, of the same name don't stack. See the DMG errata:




          Combining Game effects (p.252) This is a new subsection at
          the end of the “Combat” section:



          Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap...




          So only one dose (1d4 damage) of the poison would apply.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$









          • 5




            $begingroup$
            Hmm. Certainly a reasonable interpretation, and one I'll likely use (as I'd missed that section of the rules). However, in my DMG that section includes "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which seems to me to specifically omit non-magic items.
            $endgroup$
            – Peter Cooper Jr.
            Nov 25 '18 at 0:43










          • $begingroup$
            It's probably worth noting that the potency duration would be reset on subsequent applications, as the newer effect is arguably the more potent one.
            $endgroup$
            – Yessoan
            Nov 27 '18 at 1:09



















          2












          $begingroup$


          The closest you can come to this is perhaps a double-bladed weapon and Extra Attack


          Let's suppose your aim is to get 2d4 instead of just 1d4 of that poison damage on a single turn, with a single weapon, and without reapplying the poison once the combat has started.

          As correctly pointed out by Purple Monkey this won't work by coating, e.g., the same sword more than once with basic poison and then attacking with it, if such poison counts as a "game effect" mentioned in the DMG errata (which it likely should be).



          However, does the player have a double-bladed weapon, and Extra Attack? Then she could coat both blades right before jumping into the fray, and potentially get the 1d4 poison on both attacks (if they hit), because they no longer happen "at the same time."



          Note: There are double-blade weapons in 5e now. Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron from WotC introduces the double-bladed scimitar. You don't even need Extra Attack to hit with the opposing end-blade (you can use a bonus action).



          If you want to house-rule to allow double-dosing the poison...



          ...or if you read the DMG errata as being unclear on whether mundane poison is a "game effect", then as 16th century toxicologist Paracelsus said, "dosage makes the poison". In real life, greater dosage of poison usually means more damage, but it is a non-linear relationship between the two. And how much could stick to one's sword without just dripping off? It would seem hard to manage for the DM.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

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            active

            oldest

            votes









            18












            $begingroup$

            Game effects, not just magical effects, of the same name don't stack. See the DMG errata:




            Combining Game effects (p.252) This is a new subsection at
            the end of the “Combat” section:



            Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap...




            So only one dose (1d4 damage) of the poison would apply.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$









            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Hmm. Certainly a reasonable interpretation, and one I'll likely use (as I'd missed that section of the rules). However, in my DMG that section includes "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which seems to me to specifically omit non-magic items.
              $endgroup$
              – Peter Cooper Jr.
              Nov 25 '18 at 0:43










            • $begingroup$
              It's probably worth noting that the potency duration would be reset on subsequent applications, as the newer effect is arguably the more potent one.
              $endgroup$
              – Yessoan
              Nov 27 '18 at 1:09
















            18












            $begingroup$

            Game effects, not just magical effects, of the same name don't stack. See the DMG errata:




            Combining Game effects (p.252) This is a new subsection at
            the end of the “Combat” section:



            Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap...




            So only one dose (1d4 damage) of the poison would apply.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$









            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Hmm. Certainly a reasonable interpretation, and one I'll likely use (as I'd missed that section of the rules). However, in my DMG that section includes "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which seems to me to specifically omit non-magic items.
              $endgroup$
              – Peter Cooper Jr.
              Nov 25 '18 at 0:43










            • $begingroup$
              It's probably worth noting that the potency duration would be reset on subsequent applications, as the newer effect is arguably the more potent one.
              $endgroup$
              – Yessoan
              Nov 27 '18 at 1:09














            18












            18








            18





            $begingroup$

            Game effects, not just magical effects, of the same name don't stack. See the DMG errata:




            Combining Game effects (p.252) This is a new subsection at
            the end of the “Combat” section:



            Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap...




            So only one dose (1d4 damage) of the poison would apply.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Game effects, not just magical effects, of the same name don't stack. See the DMG errata:




            Combining Game effects (p.252) This is a new subsection at
            the end of the “Combat” section:



            Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap...




            So only one dose (1d4 damage) of the poison would apply.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Nov 25 '18 at 0:36









            Purple MonkeyPurple Monkey

            39.5k9163245




            39.5k9163245








            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Hmm. Certainly a reasonable interpretation, and one I'll likely use (as I'd missed that section of the rules). However, in my DMG that section includes "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which seems to me to specifically omit non-magic items.
              $endgroup$
              – Peter Cooper Jr.
              Nov 25 '18 at 0:43










            • $begingroup$
              It's probably worth noting that the potency duration would be reset on subsequent applications, as the newer effect is arguably the more potent one.
              $endgroup$
              – Yessoan
              Nov 27 '18 at 1:09














            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Hmm. Certainly a reasonable interpretation, and one I'll likely use (as I'd missed that section of the rules). However, in my DMG that section includes "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which seems to me to specifically omit non-magic items.
              $endgroup$
              – Peter Cooper Jr.
              Nov 25 '18 at 0:43










            • $begingroup$
              It's probably worth noting that the potency duration would be reset on subsequent applications, as the newer effect is arguably the more potent one.
              $endgroup$
              – Yessoan
              Nov 27 '18 at 1:09








            5




            5




            $begingroup$
            Hmm. Certainly a reasonable interpretation, and one I'll likely use (as I'd missed that section of the rules). However, in my DMG that section includes "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which seems to me to specifically omit non-magic items.
            $endgroup$
            – Peter Cooper Jr.
            Nov 25 '18 at 0:43




            $begingroup$
            Hmm. Certainly a reasonable interpretation, and one I'll likely use (as I'd missed that section of the rules). However, in my DMG that section includes "Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items", which seems to me to specifically omit non-magic items.
            $endgroup$
            – Peter Cooper Jr.
            Nov 25 '18 at 0:43












            $begingroup$
            It's probably worth noting that the potency duration would be reset on subsequent applications, as the newer effect is arguably the more potent one.
            $endgroup$
            – Yessoan
            Nov 27 '18 at 1:09




            $begingroup$
            It's probably worth noting that the potency duration would be reset on subsequent applications, as the newer effect is arguably the more potent one.
            $endgroup$
            – Yessoan
            Nov 27 '18 at 1:09













            2












            $begingroup$


            The closest you can come to this is perhaps a double-bladed weapon and Extra Attack


            Let's suppose your aim is to get 2d4 instead of just 1d4 of that poison damage on a single turn, with a single weapon, and without reapplying the poison once the combat has started.

            As correctly pointed out by Purple Monkey this won't work by coating, e.g., the same sword more than once with basic poison and then attacking with it, if such poison counts as a "game effect" mentioned in the DMG errata (which it likely should be).



            However, does the player have a double-bladed weapon, and Extra Attack? Then she could coat both blades right before jumping into the fray, and potentially get the 1d4 poison on both attacks (if they hit), because they no longer happen "at the same time."



            Note: There are double-blade weapons in 5e now. Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron from WotC introduces the double-bladed scimitar. You don't even need Extra Attack to hit with the opposing end-blade (you can use a bonus action).



            If you want to house-rule to allow double-dosing the poison...



            ...or if you read the DMG errata as being unclear on whether mundane poison is a "game effect", then as 16th century toxicologist Paracelsus said, "dosage makes the poison". In real life, greater dosage of poison usually means more damage, but it is a non-linear relationship between the two. And how much could stick to one's sword without just dripping off? It would seem hard to manage for the DM.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$


















              2












              $begingroup$


              The closest you can come to this is perhaps a double-bladed weapon and Extra Attack


              Let's suppose your aim is to get 2d4 instead of just 1d4 of that poison damage on a single turn, with a single weapon, and without reapplying the poison once the combat has started.

              As correctly pointed out by Purple Monkey this won't work by coating, e.g., the same sword more than once with basic poison and then attacking with it, if such poison counts as a "game effect" mentioned in the DMG errata (which it likely should be).



              However, does the player have a double-bladed weapon, and Extra Attack? Then she could coat both blades right before jumping into the fray, and potentially get the 1d4 poison on both attacks (if they hit), because they no longer happen "at the same time."



              Note: There are double-blade weapons in 5e now. Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron from WotC introduces the double-bladed scimitar. You don't even need Extra Attack to hit with the opposing end-blade (you can use a bonus action).



              If you want to house-rule to allow double-dosing the poison...



              ...or if you read the DMG errata as being unclear on whether mundane poison is a "game effect", then as 16th century toxicologist Paracelsus said, "dosage makes the poison". In real life, greater dosage of poison usually means more damage, but it is a non-linear relationship between the two. And how much could stick to one's sword without just dripping off? It would seem hard to manage for the DM.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$
















                2












                2








                2





                $begingroup$


                The closest you can come to this is perhaps a double-bladed weapon and Extra Attack


                Let's suppose your aim is to get 2d4 instead of just 1d4 of that poison damage on a single turn, with a single weapon, and without reapplying the poison once the combat has started.

                As correctly pointed out by Purple Monkey this won't work by coating, e.g., the same sword more than once with basic poison and then attacking with it, if such poison counts as a "game effect" mentioned in the DMG errata (which it likely should be).



                However, does the player have a double-bladed weapon, and Extra Attack? Then she could coat both blades right before jumping into the fray, and potentially get the 1d4 poison on both attacks (if they hit), because they no longer happen "at the same time."



                Note: There are double-blade weapons in 5e now. Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron from WotC introduces the double-bladed scimitar. You don't even need Extra Attack to hit with the opposing end-blade (you can use a bonus action).



                If you want to house-rule to allow double-dosing the poison...



                ...or if you read the DMG errata as being unclear on whether mundane poison is a "game effect", then as 16th century toxicologist Paracelsus said, "dosage makes the poison". In real life, greater dosage of poison usually means more damage, but it is a non-linear relationship between the two. And how much could stick to one's sword without just dripping off? It would seem hard to manage for the DM.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$




                The closest you can come to this is perhaps a double-bladed weapon and Extra Attack


                Let's suppose your aim is to get 2d4 instead of just 1d4 of that poison damage on a single turn, with a single weapon, and without reapplying the poison once the combat has started.

                As correctly pointed out by Purple Monkey this won't work by coating, e.g., the same sword more than once with basic poison and then attacking with it, if such poison counts as a "game effect" mentioned in the DMG errata (which it likely should be).



                However, does the player have a double-bladed weapon, and Extra Attack? Then she could coat both blades right before jumping into the fray, and potentially get the 1d4 poison on both attacks (if they hit), because they no longer happen "at the same time."



                Note: There are double-blade weapons in 5e now. Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron from WotC introduces the double-bladed scimitar. You don't even need Extra Attack to hit with the opposing end-blade (you can use a bonus action).



                If you want to house-rule to allow double-dosing the poison...



                ...or if you read the DMG errata as being unclear on whether mundane poison is a "game effect", then as 16th century toxicologist Paracelsus said, "dosage makes the poison". In real life, greater dosage of poison usually means more damage, but it is a non-linear relationship between the two. And how much could stick to one's sword without just dripping off? It would seem hard to manage for the DM.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Nov 25 '18 at 5:33

























                answered Nov 25 '18 at 0:54









                Valley LadValley Lad

                3,3231238




                3,3231238






























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