(How) Could a medieval fantasy world survive a magic-induced “nuclear winter”?
$begingroup$
So, a council of wizards decided that all should bow to their rule. That, it turns out, is a thing wizard councils did a lot. This lead into a certain degree of disagreement, which in turn resulted in the exchange of increasingly large fireballs and generally propelling matter into the stratosphere.
So, now most of the larger objects in the stratosphere have fallen down, leaving only sooty smoke and dust darkening the skies, resulting in a nuclear winter. And, given the aforementioned fireballs, a lot of the wizards are gone, and anyone pursuing the craft tends to end up under considerable time-pressure to learn how to stand on thin air.
So, my question is: How, if at all, can a medieval fantasy population, with a bare minimum of magic, weather the nuclear winter?
magic medieval post-apocalypse
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So, a council of wizards decided that all should bow to their rule. That, it turns out, is a thing wizard councils did a lot. This lead into a certain degree of disagreement, which in turn resulted in the exchange of increasingly large fireballs and generally propelling matter into the stratosphere.
So, now most of the larger objects in the stratosphere have fallen down, leaving only sooty smoke and dust darkening the skies, resulting in a nuclear winter. And, given the aforementioned fireballs, a lot of the wizards are gone, and anyone pursuing the craft tends to end up under considerable time-pressure to learn how to stand on thin air.
So, my question is: How, if at all, can a medieval fantasy population, with a bare minimum of magic, weather the nuclear winter?
magic medieval post-apocalypse
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
About which climate zone are we talking? A nuclear winter will be way worse for a farmer on Iceland than for a Tuareg in the sahara. Very hot areas could actually benefit a lot form a nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The answer to this question depends greatly on the amount of carbon thrown into the atmosphere. For reference it is estimated that 100 Hiroshimas would result in Five megatons of black carbon entering the atmosphere.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So, a council of wizards decided that all should bow to their rule. That, it turns out, is a thing wizard councils did a lot. This lead into a certain degree of disagreement, which in turn resulted in the exchange of increasingly large fireballs and generally propelling matter into the stratosphere.
So, now most of the larger objects in the stratosphere have fallen down, leaving only sooty smoke and dust darkening the skies, resulting in a nuclear winter. And, given the aforementioned fireballs, a lot of the wizards are gone, and anyone pursuing the craft tends to end up under considerable time-pressure to learn how to stand on thin air.
So, my question is: How, if at all, can a medieval fantasy population, with a bare minimum of magic, weather the nuclear winter?
magic medieval post-apocalypse
$endgroup$
So, a council of wizards decided that all should bow to their rule. That, it turns out, is a thing wizard councils did a lot. This lead into a certain degree of disagreement, which in turn resulted in the exchange of increasingly large fireballs and generally propelling matter into the stratosphere.
So, now most of the larger objects in the stratosphere have fallen down, leaving only sooty smoke and dust darkening the skies, resulting in a nuclear winter. And, given the aforementioned fireballs, a lot of the wizards are gone, and anyone pursuing the craft tends to end up under considerable time-pressure to learn how to stand on thin air.
So, my question is: How, if at all, can a medieval fantasy population, with a bare minimum of magic, weather the nuclear winter?
magic medieval post-apocalypse
magic medieval post-apocalypse
asked 4 hours ago
HAEMHAEM
501313
501313
$begingroup$
About which climate zone are we talking? A nuclear winter will be way worse for a farmer on Iceland than for a Tuareg in the sahara. Very hot areas could actually benefit a lot form a nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The answer to this question depends greatly on the amount of carbon thrown into the atmosphere. For reference it is estimated that 100 Hiroshimas would result in Five megatons of black carbon entering the atmosphere.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
About which climate zone are we talking? A nuclear winter will be way worse for a farmer on Iceland than for a Tuareg in the sahara. Very hot areas could actually benefit a lot form a nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The answer to this question depends greatly on the amount of carbon thrown into the atmosphere. For reference it is estimated that 100 Hiroshimas would result in Five megatons of black carbon entering the atmosphere.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
About which climate zone are we talking? A nuclear winter will be way worse for a farmer on Iceland than for a Tuareg in the sahara. Very hot areas could actually benefit a lot form a nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
About which climate zone are we talking? A nuclear winter will be way worse for a farmer on Iceland than for a Tuareg in the sahara. Very hot areas could actually benefit a lot form a nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The answer to this question depends greatly on the amount of carbon thrown into the atmosphere. For reference it is estimated that 100 Hiroshimas would result in Five megatons of black carbon entering the atmosphere.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
The answer to this question depends greatly on the amount of carbon thrown into the atmosphere. For reference it is estimated that 100 Hiroshimas would result in Five megatons of black carbon entering the atmosphere.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
For a medieval world an harsher climate would easily mean famine: look at the impact of the year without summer following the Krakatoa eruption on some communities, though they were well off of middle age.
A nuclear winter would mean sure death for a large part of the population. The only way for magic to help would be to increase food production before the blow, and to preserve the food during the nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Did you know that temperatures dipped in Medieval times in something close to Nuclear Winter? It was called the Little Ice Age. NW takes temps down by 1.8 degrees F. The LIA took it down by 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless you are looking to add NW ON TOP of that--gotta say, historically, you ALREADY HAVE the effects, or at least pretty close.
So Famine. And yet the population still grew as people adjusted. There's a .3 difference. That's a lot.
NW, or at least the 1.8 takes 100 Hiroshimas. That's just...a lot. And difficult to achieve for a population so low. It means that there have to be whole areas that are just burned to ash.
The answer to how they can weather it--hie thee to yon google and ask about the effects of the Little Ice Age. Folks died, famine happened and so on. That can give you a detailed account.
I will add to this when I have time regarding the Great Famine and effects.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced there can be a direct comparison between a nuclear winter and the Little ice Age. - 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit would be one year after 100 Hiroshimas dropped. But all that carbon won't go away that quickly, after 5 years it'll be more like - 3 degrees Fahrenheit. And there are other effects such as reduced rainfall and depletion of the Ozone layer from all the carbon floating around. After 100 Hiroshimas, things won't get back to normal for about 30 years, while the Little Ice Age took around 500 years, so a much more gradual process.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Survive? Sure!
There were farmers in Sicily just as there were farmers in Norway. The difference in temperature is easily more than the effects of a nuclear winter.
Some problems with that glib answer:
- Farmers in Norway and in Sicily have animals and crops adapted to their respective climate. They know what to expect and how to cope. That's not the case in a surprise magical winter. There may well be near 100% losses of the planted crops and herds.
- Buildings will not be adapted to the temperature. Will orchards be cut down to heat thin-walled huts? Will roofs collapse under the loads of snow?
- If half the necessary food is missing, it won't be that half the people will simply lie down and starve. There will be a collapse of law and order.
Still, exterminating an entire population is extremely difficult. The question is how many will survive, and who. One percent? Ten percent?
- Who has stockpiles of food, and can they defend them? Will people die before they can consume their hidden stockpiles, and will subsequent scavengers find them?
- Are the barons ruthless enough to let their serfs starve and to feed their knights? Are they ruthless enough to let some of their knights starve to feed some of their serfs?
- Will groups like hunters and fishermen continue to feed their communities as long as possible, or will they hide out in the forest with their meager catch?
I can think of a couple of spells that a low-end "hedge wizard" or "wise woman" might know.
Lure fish into creel.
Detect wild fruit and vegetables. (Might also work on hidden root cellars.)
Preserve meat. (If fodder runs out and animals must be slaughtered.)
Ignite fire with wet wood and no tinder. (After the rains.)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
For a medieval world an harsher climate would easily mean famine: look at the impact of the year without summer following the Krakatoa eruption on some communities, though they were well off of middle age.
A nuclear winter would mean sure death for a large part of the population. The only way for magic to help would be to increase food production before the blow, and to preserve the food during the nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a medieval world an harsher climate would easily mean famine: look at the impact of the year without summer following the Krakatoa eruption on some communities, though they were well off of middle age.
A nuclear winter would mean sure death for a large part of the population. The only way for magic to help would be to increase food production before the blow, and to preserve the food during the nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a medieval world an harsher climate would easily mean famine: look at the impact of the year without summer following the Krakatoa eruption on some communities, though they were well off of middle age.
A nuclear winter would mean sure death for a large part of the population. The only way for magic to help would be to increase food production before the blow, and to preserve the food during the nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
For a medieval world an harsher climate would easily mean famine: look at the impact of the year without summer following the Krakatoa eruption on some communities, though they were well off of middle age.
A nuclear winter would mean sure death for a large part of the population. The only way for magic to help would be to increase food production before the blow, and to preserve the food during the nuclear winter.
answered 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
89.5k29208434
89.5k29208434
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Did you know that temperatures dipped in Medieval times in something close to Nuclear Winter? It was called the Little Ice Age. NW takes temps down by 1.8 degrees F. The LIA took it down by 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless you are looking to add NW ON TOP of that--gotta say, historically, you ALREADY HAVE the effects, or at least pretty close.
So Famine. And yet the population still grew as people adjusted. There's a .3 difference. That's a lot.
NW, or at least the 1.8 takes 100 Hiroshimas. That's just...a lot. And difficult to achieve for a population so low. It means that there have to be whole areas that are just burned to ash.
The answer to how they can weather it--hie thee to yon google and ask about the effects of the Little Ice Age. Folks died, famine happened and so on. That can give you a detailed account.
I will add to this when I have time regarding the Great Famine and effects.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced there can be a direct comparison between a nuclear winter and the Little ice Age. - 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit would be one year after 100 Hiroshimas dropped. But all that carbon won't go away that quickly, after 5 years it'll be more like - 3 degrees Fahrenheit. And there are other effects such as reduced rainfall and depletion of the Ozone layer from all the carbon floating around. After 100 Hiroshimas, things won't get back to normal for about 30 years, while the Little Ice Age took around 500 years, so a much more gradual process.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Did you know that temperatures dipped in Medieval times in something close to Nuclear Winter? It was called the Little Ice Age. NW takes temps down by 1.8 degrees F. The LIA took it down by 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless you are looking to add NW ON TOP of that--gotta say, historically, you ALREADY HAVE the effects, or at least pretty close.
So Famine. And yet the population still grew as people adjusted. There's a .3 difference. That's a lot.
NW, or at least the 1.8 takes 100 Hiroshimas. That's just...a lot. And difficult to achieve for a population so low. It means that there have to be whole areas that are just burned to ash.
The answer to how they can weather it--hie thee to yon google and ask about the effects of the Little Ice Age. Folks died, famine happened and so on. That can give you a detailed account.
I will add to this when I have time regarding the Great Famine and effects.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced there can be a direct comparison between a nuclear winter and the Little ice Age. - 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit would be one year after 100 Hiroshimas dropped. But all that carbon won't go away that quickly, after 5 years it'll be more like - 3 degrees Fahrenheit. And there are other effects such as reduced rainfall and depletion of the Ozone layer from all the carbon floating around. After 100 Hiroshimas, things won't get back to normal for about 30 years, while the Little Ice Age took around 500 years, so a much more gradual process.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Did you know that temperatures dipped in Medieval times in something close to Nuclear Winter? It was called the Little Ice Age. NW takes temps down by 1.8 degrees F. The LIA took it down by 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless you are looking to add NW ON TOP of that--gotta say, historically, you ALREADY HAVE the effects, or at least pretty close.
So Famine. And yet the population still grew as people adjusted. There's a .3 difference. That's a lot.
NW, or at least the 1.8 takes 100 Hiroshimas. That's just...a lot. And difficult to achieve for a population so low. It means that there have to be whole areas that are just burned to ash.
The answer to how they can weather it--hie thee to yon google and ask about the effects of the Little Ice Age. Folks died, famine happened and so on. That can give you a detailed account.
I will add to this when I have time regarding the Great Famine and effects.
$endgroup$
Did you know that temperatures dipped in Medieval times in something close to Nuclear Winter? It was called the Little Ice Age. NW takes temps down by 1.8 degrees F. The LIA took it down by 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless you are looking to add NW ON TOP of that--gotta say, historically, you ALREADY HAVE the effects, or at least pretty close.
So Famine. And yet the population still grew as people adjusted. There's a .3 difference. That's a lot.
NW, or at least the 1.8 takes 100 Hiroshimas. That's just...a lot. And difficult to achieve for a population so low. It means that there have to be whole areas that are just burned to ash.
The answer to how they can weather it--hie thee to yon google and ask about the effects of the Little Ice Age. Folks died, famine happened and so on. That can give you a detailed account.
I will add to this when I have time regarding the Great Famine and effects.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
Erin ThursbyErin Thursby
26.6k345125
26.6k345125
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced there can be a direct comparison between a nuclear winter and the Little ice Age. - 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit would be one year after 100 Hiroshimas dropped. But all that carbon won't go away that quickly, after 5 years it'll be more like - 3 degrees Fahrenheit. And there are other effects such as reduced rainfall and depletion of the Ozone layer from all the carbon floating around. After 100 Hiroshimas, things won't get back to normal for about 30 years, while the Little Ice Age took around 500 years, so a much more gradual process.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced there can be a direct comparison between a nuclear winter and the Little ice Age. - 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit would be one year after 100 Hiroshimas dropped. But all that carbon won't go away that quickly, after 5 years it'll be more like - 3 degrees Fahrenheit. And there are other effects such as reduced rainfall and depletion of the Ozone layer from all the carbon floating around. After 100 Hiroshimas, things won't get back to normal for about 30 years, while the Little Ice Age took around 500 years, so a much more gradual process.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced there can be a direct comparison between a nuclear winter and the Little ice Age. - 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit would be one year after 100 Hiroshimas dropped. But all that carbon won't go away that quickly, after 5 years it'll be more like - 3 degrees Fahrenheit. And there are other effects such as reduced rainfall and depletion of the Ozone layer from all the carbon floating around. After 100 Hiroshimas, things won't get back to normal for about 30 years, while the Little Ice Age took around 500 years, so a much more gradual process.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
I'm not convinced there can be a direct comparison between a nuclear winter and the Little ice Age. - 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit would be one year after 100 Hiroshimas dropped. But all that carbon won't go away that quickly, after 5 years it'll be more like - 3 degrees Fahrenheit. And there are other effects such as reduced rainfall and depletion of the Ozone layer from all the carbon floating around. After 100 Hiroshimas, things won't get back to normal for about 30 years, while the Little Ice Age took around 500 years, so a much more gradual process.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Survive? Sure!
There were farmers in Sicily just as there were farmers in Norway. The difference in temperature is easily more than the effects of a nuclear winter.
Some problems with that glib answer:
- Farmers in Norway and in Sicily have animals and crops adapted to their respective climate. They know what to expect and how to cope. That's not the case in a surprise magical winter. There may well be near 100% losses of the planted crops and herds.
- Buildings will not be adapted to the temperature. Will orchards be cut down to heat thin-walled huts? Will roofs collapse under the loads of snow?
- If half the necessary food is missing, it won't be that half the people will simply lie down and starve. There will be a collapse of law and order.
Still, exterminating an entire population is extremely difficult. The question is how many will survive, and who. One percent? Ten percent?
- Who has stockpiles of food, and can they defend them? Will people die before they can consume their hidden stockpiles, and will subsequent scavengers find them?
- Are the barons ruthless enough to let their serfs starve and to feed their knights? Are they ruthless enough to let some of their knights starve to feed some of their serfs?
- Will groups like hunters and fishermen continue to feed their communities as long as possible, or will they hide out in the forest with their meager catch?
I can think of a couple of spells that a low-end "hedge wizard" or "wise woman" might know.
Lure fish into creel.
Detect wild fruit and vegetables. (Might also work on hidden root cellars.)
Preserve meat. (If fodder runs out and animals must be slaughtered.)
Ignite fire with wet wood and no tinder. (After the rains.)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Survive? Sure!
There were farmers in Sicily just as there were farmers in Norway. The difference in temperature is easily more than the effects of a nuclear winter.
Some problems with that glib answer:
- Farmers in Norway and in Sicily have animals and crops adapted to their respective climate. They know what to expect and how to cope. That's not the case in a surprise magical winter. There may well be near 100% losses of the planted crops and herds.
- Buildings will not be adapted to the temperature. Will orchards be cut down to heat thin-walled huts? Will roofs collapse under the loads of snow?
- If half the necessary food is missing, it won't be that half the people will simply lie down and starve. There will be a collapse of law and order.
Still, exterminating an entire population is extremely difficult. The question is how many will survive, and who. One percent? Ten percent?
- Who has stockpiles of food, and can they defend them? Will people die before they can consume their hidden stockpiles, and will subsequent scavengers find them?
- Are the barons ruthless enough to let their serfs starve and to feed their knights? Are they ruthless enough to let some of their knights starve to feed some of their serfs?
- Will groups like hunters and fishermen continue to feed their communities as long as possible, or will they hide out in the forest with their meager catch?
I can think of a couple of spells that a low-end "hedge wizard" or "wise woman" might know.
Lure fish into creel.
Detect wild fruit and vegetables. (Might also work on hidden root cellars.)
Preserve meat. (If fodder runs out and animals must be slaughtered.)
Ignite fire with wet wood and no tinder. (After the rains.)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Survive? Sure!
There were farmers in Sicily just as there were farmers in Norway. The difference in temperature is easily more than the effects of a nuclear winter.
Some problems with that glib answer:
- Farmers in Norway and in Sicily have animals and crops adapted to their respective climate. They know what to expect and how to cope. That's not the case in a surprise magical winter. There may well be near 100% losses of the planted crops and herds.
- Buildings will not be adapted to the temperature. Will orchards be cut down to heat thin-walled huts? Will roofs collapse under the loads of snow?
- If half the necessary food is missing, it won't be that half the people will simply lie down and starve. There will be a collapse of law and order.
Still, exterminating an entire population is extremely difficult. The question is how many will survive, and who. One percent? Ten percent?
- Who has stockpiles of food, and can they defend them? Will people die before they can consume their hidden stockpiles, and will subsequent scavengers find them?
- Are the barons ruthless enough to let their serfs starve and to feed their knights? Are they ruthless enough to let some of their knights starve to feed some of their serfs?
- Will groups like hunters and fishermen continue to feed their communities as long as possible, or will they hide out in the forest with their meager catch?
I can think of a couple of spells that a low-end "hedge wizard" or "wise woman" might know.
Lure fish into creel.
Detect wild fruit and vegetables. (Might also work on hidden root cellars.)
Preserve meat. (If fodder runs out and animals must be slaughtered.)
Ignite fire with wet wood and no tinder. (After the rains.)
$endgroup$
Survive? Sure!
There were farmers in Sicily just as there were farmers in Norway. The difference in temperature is easily more than the effects of a nuclear winter.
Some problems with that glib answer:
- Farmers in Norway and in Sicily have animals and crops adapted to their respective climate. They know what to expect and how to cope. That's not the case in a surprise magical winter. There may well be near 100% losses of the planted crops and herds.
- Buildings will not be adapted to the temperature. Will orchards be cut down to heat thin-walled huts? Will roofs collapse under the loads of snow?
- If half the necessary food is missing, it won't be that half the people will simply lie down and starve. There will be a collapse of law and order.
Still, exterminating an entire population is extremely difficult. The question is how many will survive, and who. One percent? Ten percent?
- Who has stockpiles of food, and can they defend them? Will people die before they can consume their hidden stockpiles, and will subsequent scavengers find them?
- Are the barons ruthless enough to let their serfs starve and to feed their knights? Are they ruthless enough to let some of their knights starve to feed some of their serfs?
- Will groups like hunters and fishermen continue to feed their communities as long as possible, or will they hide out in the forest with their meager catch?
I can think of a couple of spells that a low-end "hedge wizard" or "wise woman" might know.
Lure fish into creel.
Detect wild fruit and vegetables. (Might also work on hidden root cellars.)
Preserve meat. (If fodder runs out and animals must be slaughtered.)
Ignite fire with wet wood and no tinder. (After the rains.)
answered 20 mins ago
o.m.o.m.
62.6k791203
62.6k791203
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
About which climate zone are we talking? A nuclear winter will be way worse for a farmer on Iceland than for a Tuareg in the sahara. Very hot areas could actually benefit a lot form a nuclear winter.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The answer to this question depends greatly on the amount of carbon thrown into the atmosphere. For reference it is estimated that 100 Hiroshimas would result in Five megatons of black carbon entering the atmosphere.
$endgroup$
– K Mo
1 hour ago